DD depressed she didn't get into Cambridge

[alannacarter]

Hi All,

Need some advice here please. My daughter applied to do Maths at Cambridge this year but got rejected after interview. She did a summer internship at St John's College and was hopeful she would have a chance but is now beyond distraught at the outcome. She had the results since Jan/Feb I think and has been really down since. She now believes people need to be geniuses to get in and that she is just not good enough for Maths. She got an offer from Warwick but is super high at AAA* and offers from Manchester and Liverpool. She didn't go to good schools and we unfortunately didn't know better at the time. Still she works super hard and is predicted good results, just don't know if enough for Warwick, fingers crossed. I don't know if this is a teenager thing but how can I get Cambridge out of her head? She just thinks she is not good enough in general. Thank you.

As others have alluded to, Maths at Cambridge has a (very) high opinion of itself and recruits accordingly. It might not feel like it but getting rejected at interview is better than getting an unrealistic offer and then not being able to make the grades - this way she keeps two good options open.

I didn't get the grades for Nat Sciences at Cambridge, and ended up with my second choice of St Andrews reading Maths. Was the best thing that could have happened - I was much better suited to St Andrews and the course there. Maths courses come in a lot of shapes and sizes - I found I was very much a practical mathematician (boundaries of computer science, operations research and physics; even history of maths) rather than a maths genius. I definitely wouldn't have got a first in Maths at Cambridge...

NB Warwick would have been my third choice - it has an excellent reputation for Maths - I just preferred St Andrews for the location!

Not getting into Cambridge didn't stop me from becoming a partner in professional services and leading a comfortable life subsequently.

Wow- she's predicted As and A*s and wants to study maths. Awesome girl. Take one of the other amazing offers. If she really wants that college feel then Durham is one to consider. She can also reapply next year once she has her grades if she likes and there is always post grad options. She's going to do well, whatever, but the disappointment is real.

Or perhaps she could apply for a maths related subject- I'm not the knowledgable but maybe mechanical engineering for example? Or economics

I'm going on a 20 year reunion trip with 9 friends from Cardiff uni. As in we left 20 years ago and still have an annual weekend away and a WhatsApp group. I can't think of a better possible uni experience had I gone to Oxford or Cambridge.
She may have a similar experience to me at Warwick or wherever she goes. All of us from the Cardiff uni friendship group have good jobs now. (Just for clarify. None of us did maths).

The mathematical tripos at Cambridge is covered in 4 years not 3, and you can apply after 3 years at a different university to do ‘Part III’ which is effectively a taught masters, and also the final and most intense year of the maths Tripos. Lots of people from the UK and across the world do Part III at Cambridge and actually I think this is the epitome of the Cambridge maths degree rather than the undergraduate stuff.

So your dd hasn’t lost out on the chance to go to Cambridge - if she can get a good first at Warwick she can apply to do Part III which is an amazing experience for a mathematician. It’s a really tough course, but a brilliant experience.

https://www.maths.cam.ac.uk/postgrad/part-iii/prospective.html

I was a Cambridge reject. It was a long time ago and things have changed, but it took me years to get over the rejection. I was absolutely devastated. I had top grades (only As in those days) and Distinctions in Special Papers. To put it in context, I came from a state school in one of the most deprived areas in the UK, I had no advice on courses or colleges (which, it turns out, is quite important) and the Cambridge interview was my first ever interview (no school practice runs and, as a first gen in university, my parents didn’t have a clue). I felt like an abject failure for years. But, as time has gone on, I realised that the decision had nothing at all to do with academic ability. What the admission tutors are very good at knowing is if the candidates will fit into that specific, and very unusual, environment. Had I gone, I would have been crushed and would have dropped out in my first year, not because of the work ethic, but because I had no idea of life outside my home town. The situation with your dc might be different, but I just wanted to share this experience. And, if it helps, I’m now a well-known professor in my field. I interview students and staff from oxbridge and they are certainly not always the best. I have given guest lectures in Oxford and published books for OUP (but to this day, I avoid Cambridge!). Their loss!

Now I’ve written all that down, I’ve realised that it was that rejection that actually spurred me on in my academic career. It could be a motivation for your dd in the long term. I’m not sure I would advise her to take a gap year and reapply, even though some have had success doing this. She might not have been the right ‘fit’ for the environment. To put it bluntly, they may well have done her a favour

Warwick is regarded as better than Cambridge for Maths.

I did maths at Oxford and my boyfriend did maths at Warwick. Maths at Warwick is incredibly high standard and, whereas my bf may have gotten a middle of the road 2.1 at Oxford (like me), he got one of the top firsts in his year at Warwick. I know a fair few people who came out with 2.2s from Oxbridge maths which is a real shame.

My boyfriend is really glad that he ended up at Warwick as he was able to pursue way more extra curricular interests than I ever did. All I did was study! We're now in exactly the same job at the same company so it's made zero difference to our job prospects.

If she's really keen for the Oxbridge experience she can always do a masters there.

One of my previous students was offered a place at Cambridge, she got 4 A stars in her A levels but was rejected as she did not score highly enough on her step exam. They really want gifted Maths students and getting A stars in Maths and Further Maths at A level does not mean you are gifted in Maths. She has gone to another highly rated Uni to study Maths and is very happy, I think she would have struggled at Cambridge.

She did think of applying to the US but the fees are so extremely high that it put us off. I will look a bit further into scholarships though. Thanks so much

She did think of applying to the US but the fees are so extremely high that it put us off. I will look a bit further into scholarships though. Thanks so much

What an incredible and inspirational journey you've had. I too honestly believe that sometimes things just work out for the best. I hope as you say that she can use the rejection to motivate her into achieving better things. Thanks so much for sharing your experience.

She is really set on Maths and is quite happy sitting doing maths all day but another reason is that she feels that she is really not good at writing essays. It's such a difficult degree. I hope she is making the right choice. Thank you

Everything happens for a reason. DD didn’t even get offered an interview for Oxford last year-she got 4xA* in her A levels. She was devastated at the time but is happy elsewhere now and also doesn’t feel that it would have actually been right for her. She will find somewhere else that will be her experience-as DD says, better to have been somewhere and had a lovely time to look back on than slogging away intensely and maybe not enjoying it so much.

And her tutors advised against a gap year and applying with results in hand unless she actually had a plan for that year, else you tend to lose momentum

Thanks for sharing this. I did say to DD that the application process is not an exact science and that there will always be a degree of subjectivity on who they choose and your post is such an example of that.

Another Warwick graduate here that had the best time of her life there.

I hope your DD can move on soon and look forward to the excitement she has coming up at the uni lucky enough to have her.

St John's mentioned on the letter that feedback should be provided in the next 2 weeks. I hope she will take this in a constructive way and use it to motivate her instead of getting even more depressed. Thank you!

My DD did not get an offer from Cambridge (not maths but HSPS) and she already has three A stars. She was devastated even though it was a fairly recent idea. She also felt what else could she have done to make her a more attractive candidate? A Star EPQ, lots of supra curriculars. It still stings, and is just trying to erase the picture of herself she had working in one of the beautiful librares at C and replace it with another (she'd have loved the rigour of it). It was a dream she almost wishes she never had (and she's had plenty of disappointment in her life, this was just another added to a pile).
I know kids want a definite reason why student X got in and they didn't, but even the university couldn't tell you that. On another day it could have been a different outcome.
But Oxbridge isn't the be all and end all. And as most candidates will have applied to the same universities it's hardly surprising they have many kids who also applied unsuccessfully to Oxbridge - or even successfully but decided against it. Your child and mine gave it a shot. It didn't work out, but that doesn't change who they are or what they've achieved so far and I just wish people would stop lighting up if Cambridge or Oxford is mentioned when other universities are just as good for many subjects (if not better).

My understanding was that you only get into the August pool if you were pooled straight after interview and she wasn't unfortunately. She had 2 interviews, did very well in one and drowned a bit on the second. She was super nervous :(

Thanks so much and best of luck to your DD!!

@MargaretOliphant your post pulled at my heartstrings as your story brought back memories for me.
I also got the same kind of A level/S level results from a school where only a small percentage of pupils did A levels, never mind went to University and nobody had any clue about Oxbridge. My Cambridge interview was my first ever interview and probably the furthest I had been from our small Northern mining town at the time. I was wearing a cheap suit bought from the market and somewhat inexpertly altered by my Mum and I was so overawed by the place, the panel and even the other candidates that I could barely speak. I was a lamb to the slaughter and I felt quite angry that my teachers had let me go let me go so unprepared. But to be fair, they were probably just as clueless as me. Unsurprisingly I didn't get in and I was devastated for some time afterwards. But now I genuinely believe it was for the best - and that's not sour grapes. I went to a good red brick University in the North that was much more "me" but even so I found the environment quite daunting initially. But I had a whale of a time at my University once I'd settled in and I have gone on to have a happy and successful career.
Nobody likes to think they are not good enough to get into their dream course but sometimes it is not so much not being "clever" enough (I can't believe the successful candidates got better results than me and most of them will have had a lot of advantages in terms of their education) but it's about being the right fit for the environment, teaching methods etc. Looking back, I do really believe that that rejection, though painful, was in my best interests. It did also add to my determination to show people I was made of tough stuff!
OP, your DD is clearly a very clever and able young woman. This rejection does not define her or limit her horizons and in time she will come to see that, and possibly even feel that she's grown as a result.

I was devastated after not getting into 1st choice. Totally devastated.

Actual choice (a uni I'd never considered before and after a gap year out) was amaaaaazing. I couldn't have had a better time anywhere else. Clearly I was meant to go there, meet that bunch of people and enjoy my degree.

Please don't set her hopes on doing a postgrad in Maths at Cambridge. Only those who get a first, or have support from their supervisor at Cambridge or those deemed to get equivalent in their university course get a place to do a masters. And if people thing that a Cambridge degree is hard, the masters takes it to a new level.