DD depressed she didn't get into Cambridge

[alannacarter]

Hi All,

Need some advice here please. My daughter applied to do Maths at Cambridge this year but got rejected after interview. She did a summer internship at St John's College and was hopeful she would have a chance but is now beyond distraught at the outcome. She had the results since Jan/Feb I think and has been really down since. She now believes people need to be geniuses to get in and that she is just not good enough for Maths. She got an offer from Warwick but is super high at AAA* and offers from Manchester and Liverpool. She didn't go to good schools and we unfortunately didn't know better at the time. Still she works super hard and is predicted good results, just don't know if enough for Warwick, fingers crossed. I don't know if this is a teenager thing but how can I get Cambridge out of her head? She just thinks she is not good enough in general. Thank you.

This is going to sound weird but look at TikTok. It was Ivy's day a couple of weeks ago and it's literally flooded with kids who didn't get in and parent's reactions. Read the comments. I found this very helpful a couple of years ago.

The reality is your DD is going to be absolutely fine if she goes to Warwick or wherever. She just isn't used to rejection and that first time, it really really hurts. Let her lick her wounds a little and then just let her know it's time for her to step up and make the best for herself.

I went to Oxford, it's really not all that. There were so many morons that shouldn't have been there if you took into account their intelligence - I suspect they got in because they went to a private school.

Regardless, your daughter is grieving for the university life that she wanted that she now won't get. Hopefully in time she will see that everything happens for a reason. It may be that the university she does go to is the one where she finds the love of her life that she marries and starts a family with. Who knows?

If she gets 3x A*s she can reject her offers on results day and apply again next year. I know quite a few people who have done that.

@alannacarter I suggest you use the "report thread" button to ask MNHQ to move your thread to Mumsnet's Higher Education forum. There are often threads there for parents in a similar position: https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/higher_education

Something my physics teacher said to me when it was interview time was "If you don't get in, it doesn't mean you weren't good enough". There will be many many people who apply that are extremely bright and more than good enough, but there aren't enough places for all of them.

Once she gets her grades, if they are excellent there is a process called adjustment and Cambridge do take part in this, or there is also the option of a gap year and reapply. However huge caveat, you aren't guaranteed a place at Cambridge with 3a*'s even, a friend failed with grades to get in, but perhaps this is better to try a second time than wonder what if.

My dd did give up because her grades were too low but thought about a masters, however is going somewhere which is world renowned for her subject, better than Cambridge

My DS was rejected by Cambridge last year and was cheesed off. A few of his school mates were in the same position. He’s now at a London university (I suggested he accept Bristol) and is loving it. No experience of maths other than a niece who was at Birmingham. She had a ball and got a First.

There’s life elsewhere but it is tough to have that knock down.

I have ds1 who got into Oxford University and ds2 who was rejected at interview.

Oxbridge is brutal, ds1 works so hard and it’s incredibly intense. It hasn’t been an easy ride for ds1 and I think that helped ds2 come to terms with his initial disappointment!

Only very few are successful in getting into Oxbridge, many incredibly bright youngsters are rejected for various reasons.

Having said that, a teenager with their heart set on Cambridge is going to experience intense disappointment and I guess she just needs to feel it and work through it. Hopefully time will give some perspective.

Tell her that Cambridge admits their selection process is not perfect and some students they don’t give offers to go on to achieve greater things than some of those they accept. At universities like Warwick, notably.

Also, if your DD is right and Cambridge is just for geniuses, that’s a strong argument surely that she’s going to prefer Warwick.

Finally, an offer for maths at Cambridge is a bit of a lottery what with the STEP only taking place in June… and a large percentage of offer holders miss their STEP requirements…

@alannacarter

On the Higher Education section, there's an annual "Oxbridge rejects" thread (it's a tongue in cheek title) I'm on it for the 22-23 intake. Mine passed the writing assessment for Cambridge but was rejected at interview (Politics and IR). She's now at Bath and loving life. (As are all the other "rejects" from that thread, and I'm guessing this year's intake as well)

Have a read and you'll see that it's a rare creature that doesn't love the university they end up going to, whichever that is. It's all about so much more than the place. (Others will disagree, and say that the career prospects and networking opportunities somewhere like Oxbridge are what matters in the end, but both as a mother, and a teacher who sends 60 kids a year to university, I don't.) I think there's a lot of pressure on "the best" to go to "the best" and sometimes we don't factor in the "best for the individual" bit. I was one of those encouraged to apply for Oxbridge but didn't. I went to Salford. Regrets? Not a nanosecond. Different life to the one I'd have had there? Undoubtedly. Different. Not worse.

Good luck to your daughter in her studies. She'll be fine. ❤️

Honestly maths is tough at Cambridge and St John's is one of the harder colleges in terms of offers.
I wanted to do maths and my further maths teacher said I'd never get more than a 2:2 at Cambridge. I did something else and one of my best friends was a math.student and frankly I'd have struggled to get a third. The pace is insane and the tutoring is pretty much "figure it out for yourself ".
I do know John's well and they don't just reject because they don't believe the student can make the standard but also if they don't think the environment is "right" for the student, so it could be they just don't think DD will thrive in maths being taught in this way.

Practical options for DD

• do the A levels, get the 3 A* and start at Warwick but also reapply to Cambridge amd if she gets in then switch (I know someone who did this last year )
• take a gap year and reapply to Cambridge
• find some students at Warwick or open day and DD goes to this, meets them and will.come round
• look at some alternatives, what about Trinity College Dublin or US ivy league on a scholarship

She sounds like such a clever girl, she'll be fine wherever she goes !

Can you try and find out why she had her heart set on Cambridge so much? Honestly, for undergraduates I don’t think it’s all it’s cracked up to be. The terms are so short that it places everyone under intense pressure and extra curricular activities also end up being pressurised too. Living in College with academics around is quite inhibiting for students trying to let their hair down and have fun. Can’t have a part-time job unless in College, very controlling. The city itself is pretty boring for someone in their teens - early twenties. I personally think that kids at Cambridge are missing out on a lot of the fun and opportunities that exist at other Universities/ cities.

Has she had her feedback from St John's yet? Getting feedback can be a bit brutal but might help her understand what happened. She should bear in mind that many very capable applicants are rejected. Literally no one who applies is guaranteed an offer. And happily you don't need your undergraduate maths degree to be from Cambridge to get a good job or have a successful life. Your DD has done well to get her other offers in a subject that is increasingly competitive.

My DD didn't get into Oxford to do maths. With hindsight, this turned out to be a very good thing. She's at a great university, on track for a first, has a year in industry placement lined up that will set her up very well for future employment, has time to do all sorts of extra curricular stuff and is having a ball. I strongly suspect that if she has gone to Oxford, she would be massively stressed and working constantly. She enjoys maths but it isn't her life. I suspect the maths cohort is slightly different to other subjects at Oxford.

Dc2 is about to apply to do maths at uni. He also wants to apply to Oxford. I am very wary of him doing so. I genuinely believe he would have a much better time elsewhere. I would go so far as to say him getting in would be a cause for concern not a celebration and he is on track for 4 A*s and is very organised and hard working.

As Oxbridge only accepts a quarter of those who apply, you will find "rejects" in all the other top unis in the country. They all thrive and have fun wherever they are. DD2 has just been offered a Masters at Oxford, and is genuinely blessed that she has ended up there finally. She is History, so very much delighted to be able to access their fabulous resources as a more focused adult with set research in mind.

If you think there was something about her background/school/preparation that might have affected her application, would it be enough of a reason that it might overcome their hesitancy about a gap year, if she could show that she was actually doing something specific to prepare for applying again? (i.e., not just taking the year off travelling, but doing some sort of course, competitions, preparing for STEP or whatever). And perhaps other colleges have different views about taking a year off. Presumably if there was something less good about her school/background, it was flagged on her form - I think this only helps get an interview, which she got already, but if there are other mitigating circumstances, she or her references could mention them in her personal statement.

If she does end up with 3 A-stars, perhaps it's worth contacting admissions again and asking what their views on re-application would be, if she has still not settled with another decision and is still wishing that she was going to Cambridge.

But I'd agree about joining the threads on here in the Higher Education section, about those applying to Oxbridge, interviewing, etc, and then the ones for those who are now having to make other choices. There is lots of company.

How about looking at other things she’s good at and enjoys?
Take her away from the academics for a bit. My Dd was extremely unwell for four years, was really low thinking she’d never amount to anything. Days out, a walk with the dog, a different perspective can help to make her see she’s doing fine in the overall scheme of things. An afternoon doing something physical she’s never done before, maybe horse riding, ice skating etc… help her find a new passion. She’s young there’s so much more to life, nudge her in a different direction and see what happens

Redirected from Oxford and Cambridge 2024 www.mumsnet.com/Talk/higher_education/4982835-redirected-from-oxford-and-cambridge-2024

Warwick is amazing for maths. Truly world class. I also did my degree at Warwick though not maths and loved it there. Knew a few mathematicians and they were next level boffins! ! To get an offer there she definitely IS good enough for maths!

In fact, all her choices are great institutions and she has done well to get those offers. It's so hard for her, though. She's obviously worked so hard and wanted it so much. Let her grieve and wallow for a bit and make a big fuss of her. Then onwards and upwards. She's going to be great

It has been a while since Ds was also rejected from Cambridge after interview but statistically I think he was a 1 in 5 chance at application stage, then 1 in 3 chance at interview meaning that a shit load of them get rejected, Ds had 4 A star prediction and achieved 4 A stars. Statistically the odds are stacked against every applicant, not just for Oxbridge but for many other unis too and for some courses the odds are even higher, ie Econ at LSE where 70% of their intake are international students.

STEP which is the entrance exam for Cambridge maths is also manipulated every year by Cambridge to cull (I believe) a percentage of the maths applicants who will probably get 3 A stars or higher so meet their entry grade requirement. An offer from a university is a legal and binding contract, if they have 300 places and have offered a place to say 340 students they need reduce that number down. Most will achieve their entry grades but then STEP is used to amend the passing level to reduce it down to the 300 students.

Warwick is an incredible university. Incredible. It is part of COWI (Cambridge, Oxford, Warwick, Imperial) and lots of students would give their right arm to go there.

There are lots of redirected from Oxbridge threads on the Higher Education board, and there is life after the rejection. There are also threads on current Oxbridge students and it is intense, so if she is feeling this low now maybe Cambridge wouldn't have done her mental health any good. The pressure is immense.

For a maths degree they really do not like a gap year and if she applied and was rejected again then what? I think she should look at her other offers and go from there. Maybe visit the place again before results day.

@ManchesterGirl2 showing Cambridge level lateral thinking there 😂

I feel pretty stupid now... I even thought 'Why is she embolding the second A?'

With a good maths degree from any of those universities, your DD should get a good job/career. My DD did a maths degree and all her friends from university, and friends that did maths at other universities have all been successful in getting jobs. She just needs to choose somewhere that she will be happy with for the next 3/4 years and try and apply for placements or summer jobs whilst she is there.

Oh I know it's hard. DC1 always dreamt of going to Oxford but did not get thorough the interview and was absolutely gutted. To add insult to injury, best friend got into Cambridge with exam results that were nowhere near near as good. However, it has all ended well. DC1 went to Imperial College with the other Oxford rejects and it is about to graduate with a 1st.

Manchester and Liverpool are brilliant too. I'd visit them all and see what she thinks.

Once A levels are out she can have another go at Oxbridge if she wants and I know people who have done that, got brilliant A levels, then applied second time and got in. have a gap year. Even if her results in the summer at not all A stars she can still the have a bit more time to think about where she wants to be with the grades in hand. I didn't try Oxbridge and no one had ever been from my school, but it hasn't mattered at all for my legal career...

Ah I see people say not a good idea for maths as you forget it during the gap year. Okay so perhaps just have a range of good universities and try to think about careers and work back. Eg for law (you can do post grad law with a maths degree) you can look at linkedin profiles of very young lawyers at firms where you might want to work and see what their universities were and their career path and you can do that in other jobs too.