If labour win the election can they introduce VAT immediately?

[londonparent321]

(For school fees) Or do they need to go through the courts which could take years /never happen?

Sorry, that was the point I was trying to make with my "er" comment!! You've completely blown their mind now!

I have a sinking feeling that this is about as well thought out as Brexit was. I’d love to see some proper analysis on it.

I wonder if this “£1.7bn raised” is really just the net figure. Because, the thing is, money paid on fees circulates in the economy, it doesn’t just stop when it is paid to the school. The school pays teachers or suppliers. In circulating, it is taxed, again and again almost every time it changes hands.

If not paying school fees, many people will either reduce their hours, or the money will go in their pension, so lost from circulation, list from further taxation as it changes hands, and the income tax yield also lost in both scenarios.

So what would the actual net economic effect of this policy actually be, I wonder.

The “£1.7bn” feels like the big red Brexit bus all over again.

It's so weird, the narrative from Labour has been so much about how this tax is correcting an unfairness that I think some people actually believe that the government subsidises private education

@cansu : the government does not in any way subsidise private education.

The change they're proposing is to add an extra sales tax (VAT).

The whole cost of private education - and now also this extra tax - comes out of the parents net salary, ie after normal income tax has already been taken off.

Private health care, and private dentists, and private piano lessons are funded and taxed exactly the same as how private schools are currently funded and taxed. Ie No government subsidy. And no sales tax (VAT).

Do you have use a private dentist @cansu? Do your DC have piano lessons or swimming lessons?

Think whether you would see it as fair to have 20% extra put on top of your dentist bills or your DCs sports and music - just because people who don't have those things are pissed off that you have something (because you've paid for it) that they don't.

Does it make our society better that no-one learns music, just because everyone can't?

Once they allow VAT to be be put on education, I assume they will be able to add it to university fees, nurseries, special schools, vocational courses, language courses, post grad courses and after school/holiday clubs (if run by big companies). Even if they don’t do it straight away, there will be nothing to stop them in the future. Once you give up on the principle, you can’t really argue against adding VAT to all paid-for education.

Exactly this. There is no VAT on a loaf of bread bought in a supermarket, but no one argues that the government is subsidising that. If people are arguing that the lack of VAT on education is a tax subsidy, then we are all being “subsidised” on our trolley full of weekly shopping.

It’s a slippery slope. Private healthcare and luxury care homes might be next, if we are using the argument that it’s not fair that some cannot afford private education. Plenty of people can’t afford private healthcare and luxury care homes. Perhaps we should add VAT to those as well.

Do you know what irritates me on these threads? It's the insistence that we must know NOW what labour will spend money raised on. When they have said what it could be spent on it's mocked (teachers, mental health support) and when it's not written in stone it's that they don't have a plan or suggestions are made that they are only going to give it to their mates' businesses or schools in London. No election has been announced yet. Their plans will be laid out in their manifesto. After that, feel free to pick holes in it as much as you like. Until then maybe, just maybe, you could have a look at what the actual government now (and for the last 10+ years) has been doing and save some criticism and interrogation for them. The state the country is in now doesn't seem to cause anywhere near as much frustration to the people who are getting angry about this issue. Maybe if it did we wouldn't be in the place we are now.

That doesn't necessarily follow, as has been discussed up thread already.
No one is suggesting VAT being added to 'education' - just the private option, when there is a state funded alternative.
We don't have private universities here in the UK so no VAT to be added.
I have private healthcare and if VAT is added to that, fair enough - there IS value added through shortened wait times etc If I don't like that, I can rely solely on the NHS.

@TheLostOnes so you're happy with them saying 'sure.... we'll spend it on important things, just don't ever expect us to say what and when... look just be happy we're stopping people you deride getting something, you lovely person you

@TheLostOnes I think you can save yourself a lot of anguish.

I, for one, am sick to the back teeth of the incompetence of the current government. I had deeply hoped for a viable alternative.

Unfortunately Labour has now proven that they are driven by spite, malice and easy headlines, rather than any grasp of economics or plan for the common good.

I am still looking for an alternative.

Yes we do have private universities here in the UK.

At least 8 I can think of... University of Buckingham for a start.

Oh and Britain's largest law school - The University of Law.

All UK universities are independent bodies - there are no government-owned universities. Private universities are just funded by fees alone rather than government funding.

Yes we do have private universities here in the UK. At least 8 I can think of... University of Buckingham for a start.

Ok so I didn't know that - but still that leaves over 150 non private alternatives.

Did I say that? No I said wait for manifesto. Stop jumping to conclusions. On this matter and on me not being a nice person. What in my comment makes you think that? The fact I said perhaps you should wait for them to release their election pledges and info about what it will be spent on closer to the election? Or was it me suggesting maybe you should be getting angry at the Tories?

I have said on threads like these that vat on school fees is not a big issue for me. It's not going to swing my vote either way. I think people who are against it think vast swathes of the country are rubbing their hand together at the thought of private school kids being shoved out. Most don't care that much about you I'm afraid. We're more worried about paying bills - which the actual current government has made increasingly more expensive to do.

Interesting alumni list for this "private" university...

Sadiq Khan, Cherie Blair, Hazel Blears, Keith Vaz

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Law

I wonder how many private schools will be stopping any connections or programmes they run with/for state schools. They won't be charities any more so no need to do any 'charity work'. I know there are scoffed at in here so I guess it won't be loss. Besides there's the £1.7 billion that can be used for new sports facilities etc in state schools.

They will still be charities (those that are now anyway)

Labour has dropped the plan to remove charitable status. The VAT proposal is distinct.

Probably won't make a difference as the charitable status doesn't change. Labour have had to do a u-turn on that one already.

The VAT issue is completely separate to the charities status.

All universities are private , they are not owned by the Government. Most are statutory charities . I understand that there will be a specific exemption for higher education and pre school education.

The thing that I have found most interesting about these discussions is how little people understand about taxation in this country . The levels of ignorance are astounding , it has made me really think about how people need to be taught this stuff because otherwise politicians can use smoke and mirrors to baffle people.

The current rule is that you can’t add VAT to education. Labour are changing that. Once they have done it, future governments can continue to take advantage of it and I expect they will.

You're OK with VAT on your health cover because it's a small proportion of your salary. School fees are our 2nd biggest expense, not far behind the mortgage.

How would you feel if they added VAT to your mortgage payments? Are you OK with those going up 20%? After all, home ownership is a luxury only available to some people. You can always sell your house and rent if you can't afford a 20% increase.

@OhCrumbsWhereNow that’s because until fairly recently the College of Law was the major provider of the Solicitors qualifying exams , pretty much all solicitors qualifying up until the 2010s will have done their course either in Lancaster Gate, Guildford or Chester . The system has now changed .

School fees are our 2nd biggest expense, not far behind the mortgage

But you have a non private alternative in state education. If you prefer the added value of private education, then you shouldn't be complaining about paying a he VAT. If you can't afford that, then use state education like the vast majority of the population.

And you have the private rental sector for housing.

If you can't afford a mortgage then use rental, like 50% of the population.

If you prefer the the added value of owning your own home, then you shouldn't be complaining about paying the VAT.

Is that OK with you?

Hardly a direct comparison.

No sympathy from me whatsoever over VAT on private education, not going to argue any further. Cannot deal with the 'woe is me having to pay more for privileged education' when some families cannot afford food. Guess that's why you vote conservative and I vote Labour.