If labour win the election can they introduce VAT immediately?

[londonparent321]

(For school fees) Or do they need to go through the courts which could take years /never happen?

@pootleq5 I agree. There’s quite a lot of advice saying this could be introduced in a March budget and could not be altered by HoL. So quite a quick start. However I’m not sure that it will affect much more than the lower end of fee paying schools and parents who are scraping fees together.

Also 18% of dc go to private 6th forms. This might be where dc stay at state school and don’t move to save money.

Can I ask what you mean by Tax payers money should not be spent to subsidise private education just like it would be wrong to use it to prop up private health care for some people. ? I don't think tax payers money is being spent to subsidise private education, simply that there is currently no sales tax on education and Labour would like to introduce one. Private healthcare is currently in the same position, but I don't think there is a similar suggested tax.

There are lots of parents who might have planned to send their child to a private school who now instead will keep them or start them in the government system and be buying houses accordingly. You just need to wander over to Mumsnet education threads to see parents asking about buying near good government schools.

If they don't introduce it quickly I will be disappointed.

Money will be going to fund more MH support in state schools and it'll be one small but significant blow to a system that sustains societal inequality.

Win win.

It's quite the opposite - people who pay for their children's education effectively pay twice - they pay their taxes like everyone else without using the state education service, so are contributing to the state sector without occupying a space, subsidising those children.

My god, how selfless they are.
Oh hang on a minute, that’s bollocks.
You’re buying privilege for your kids; at least have the decency to be honest about it.

I have a fairly simplistic view on this, and am prepared to be flamed. State education is available for all. If you choose private education, presumably you believe there is some added value. Therefore you pay VAT on the fees. If no added value, why educate privately in the first place?

Bollocks...except it's how the system works.

@TheSameClip not true at all!

I have no kids so have no skin in the game so to speak and I think it's a ridiculous policy and will have all the unintended consequences previous posters have said!

If the argument is that we should charge sales tax on anything where the state also provides a service then surely private health care , private care homes and private dental services, what about private day nurseries should they charge VAT as well . Why should someone get to jump the queue for a hip replacement and not pay VAT when they could get a hip for free ?

How's this mh support being delivered? Qualified psychologists, or is it going to be a private firm whose owner just happens to be a good bud of ol' Starmer or another Labour bod?

Why are you paying for private education? Because you know it will give your child a nicer, easier and more privileged life. Should the state help some people to achieve this advantage? No of course it shouldn't. How would you feel about a similar break for those wanting to use private health care? Would it be OK for people to get a top up to get better, faster and nicer treatment than those on the NHS? No that would be ridiculous. It would be better to use taxes for the benefit of all citizens.

I'll bet that the majority, nay, the vast majority, of those millions of people will do their best to "game the system" when it comes to their children's education. I don't blame them. The game is set up in such a way that this is the best strategy for them as individuals. I use the term "game" in the academic economic sense because it is not a joking matter.

If you want to fix the system, start by funding public (not in the Eton sense) schools properly, so that all schools for the public can achieve good results, not just schools which manage to concentrate well-to-do, supportive families. You do that by raising general taxation by a sensible amount, by raising the rate of income tax on the highest earners, and by raising the tax rate on dividends and capital gains, i.e., unearned income. Playing around with VAT on private education and hoping that the derisory amount raised and that the families driven out of the private sector will take on the task of improving the entire educational system is akin to trying to bail out the Titanic with a teaspoon.

You cannot have good schools for all children on the current budget. And the £1.7bn, even if it all materializes, will not make the difference. When the state doesn't provide enough lifeboats for everyone, you can't blame people for doing whatever they can to grab places on the ones available. Especially when the seats are for their children.

Quite
They may rush it in as a change but there's no way they'd enact it immediately because they can't have kids switching mid year for example and schools will.have planned September intakes for reception and Y7 so I'd say they'd put it in with great fanfare but will have at least a year before it kicks in and perhaps even more transition to accommodate eg A level students who can't be expected to switch half way through their 2 years.
I can't see them being so short sighted to impact kids just for a ideology

Here are some alternate ideas take the money raised from the vat and spend it on children who are vulnerable such as LAC or those on free school meals. The point being I can think of many uses of this money that would be better value for society than making it easier for kids whose parents are supportive and well off to serve the state system. It is fairly irrelevant how much is raised. It can do more good elsewhere.

I paid for my child with global developmental delay to go to an independent specialist school because we were denied an EHCP because our expectations for him were apparently ‘’too middle class’ . As a consequence the Headteacher at our local state school told us quite bluntly that as he didn’t come with any money he would be ‘a burden on the school’ and that they would not expect him to take any GCSEs as he probably would never work.

he has 7GCSEs and a BTEC, he holds down a responsible job in the public sector and pays tax . He is not a burden on anyone , he is in fact a contributor financially and volunteers in his spare time with a major charity.

if that’s buying privilege then I am guilty as charged.

@MyGooseisTotallyLoose exactly who the money is spent with is not really relevant. What is is that a tax upon a luxury will be spent on the state system and is badly needed.

Buy privilege for your DC if you choose but don't bleat when it is correctly taxed as the luxury that it is.

Ah, so we're taking this money but don't question how it's spent? Oh don't worry if all the moneys spent only in London schools (which Labour Mps dc attend) its for the Greater Good

So how do those in favour feel about the really big elite public schools getting a big chunk of cash back from the Treasury for all their fancy sports halls and theatres?

Once you charge VAT... you can also claim it back...

I'd bet that Eton et al will get a bigger cheque than any single state school in the country from this policy.

It will be the small private schools that cater for the SEN kids and those who wouldn't cope in a mainstream secondary who will be really hard hit.

Er..... VAT on private healthcare?!

Oh well then, the school can just lower the fees proportionately. Problem solved for all.

So you're happy for taxpayers' money to go to Eton then to finance their big capital projects?

No but you could give a tax break to people who buy private healthcare. It would be utter madness of course and completely indefensible.

Er..... VAT on private healthcare?!

There are loads of threads on private education and plenty of posters opposed to it, but I can’t remember seeing a thread objecting to private healthcare - which is odd as buying healthcare is buying advantage in the same way as private education.

How would you feel about a similar break for those wanting to use private health care? Would it be OK for people to get a top up to get better, faster and nicer treatment than those on the NHS? No that would be ridiculous.

That’s the current position though. Private healthcare is exempt from VAT. The VAT treatment is the same as it is for private schools.