If labour win the election can they introduce VAT immediately?

[londonparent321]

(For school fees) Or do they need to go through the courts which could take years /never happen?

@strawberrybubblegum ,

But it’s not the same.

Of course, every single student is unique and interesting. If I didn’t believe that, I would have been a crap teacher.

But that doesn’t mean there isn’t a massive difference between diversity in a
poor and rich population. In a rich population, people choose the differences and they have so much more in common, as they are exposed to the same set of experiences.

Fundamentally, if the parents had been sat next to one another at a restaurant, they would have found plenty to talk about. That just isn’t the case in a deprived population.

Having been to a private school myself I know how I wasn’t really ready to mix with people from all backgrounds when I got my first job. I still consider it a weakness, even though over a long life, I have learned to rub along with just about anyone.

Labour at not taxing private schools because their parents don’t pay enough taxes, or because they think the income would benefit state pupils. They are taxing private schools because they don’t like the idea parents giving some children an advantage (even if they had that advantage or provided it to their own children). It is the same school of thought as the SNP talking of ‘closing the attainment gap’ without seeming to care whether they do so by raising the attainment of the poorest or knocking down the attainment of the less deprived. It is also about Edinburgh university not considering ANY Scottish pupils for nine of their courses, including Law, who did not meet their criteria of ‘deprived’ (which the majority of deprived pupils don’t). Labours target will be on state school place allocation next.

In the meantime, parents will seek to provide advantage to their children however they can - because that is what parents who want the best for their children do. Even those in sink estates who do not value academic achievement will look to advantage their children in their own environment.

When my kids were day pupils at private school they still did extra curriculars with non private pupils and lived amongst people from different backgrounds and taking different paths in life.
Even when they started boarding they still stayed friends with their mates from state.
They socialise with both, going to a private school doesn’t mean you only have the opportunity of one perspective on life and kids are just as happy to rub along with people from all backgrounds given the chance.

@Newbutoldfather - for me it is not about state or private but about cultural capital and experiences.

From what I can tell, the kids in the top private schools in this country are exposed to a vast array of different experiences at school itself, on international school trips, including gap years in eg Africa, they go to school with kids from all over the world as well etc. So they are gaining a vast amount of experience. Couple that with the fact their parents are also rich and probably travel extensively, I do not think it is a narrow experience they get, far from it.

It is also why in the real world the most successful people I have met tend to also be able to talk to everyone and be quite down to earth. Because they have been exposed to a vast amount of experiences.

Unfortunately poverty and deprivation is the complete oposite of the above with a consequent narrowing of experiences and experience being so skewed towards the traumatic as well, the fight and flight.

This is precisely why the national curriculum introduced cultural capital as a concept and lots of international festivals to be honoured and an appreciation of diversity in the UK today. The hope is that experiences can be taught by schools somewhat at least.

It’s not my experience of them either. Most of the kids shop in primark and H&M. I think some people have a very narrow view of private schools and think they’re all like Eton and Harrow, which is very far from reality

North face puffa jackets round here are the typical uniform of the gangs of teens who truant from the state schools and cause trouble in the city centre.

The private school my friend’s DC attend has very popular second hand uniform sales and an equally popular second hand book sale.

Pretty much all private school parents I know use the second hand sales for at least some things, and uniform certainly gets passed down to siblings. The What’s App groups often have parents offering others sports kit they’ve outgrown (hockey sticks/rugby boots etc).

Agreed. Many parents sacrifice so many other things to send their kids to private school - it’s just that that’s their priority

rather than the fancy car, holiday, house, clothes which state school parents may be able to afford

yet private schools are being penalised

VAT will widen the gap between private and public even more. I don’t know about private schools throughout the U.K., but in London, none of these parents will take their kids out of the top private schools because of VAT. These are not the people sacrificing holidays abroad to send kids to these schools.

VAT will do nothing to address the fall in standards in basic mathematics and literacy in this country. It’s a disgrace. The U.K. is at the bottom of the G7 counties for education and here you have people salivating over VAT fees.

United Kingdom did very well in PISA https://www.datapandas.org/ranking/pisa-scores-by-country

The more worrying element is regional disparity and poverty amongst children https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/educational-attainment-gap-regional-disparities/

Where the middle class and upper class kids go to school is less relevant. They are already going to do well anyway.

The targeting has to be at the lowest levels and with a clear plan like they did in London. There is also the argument that how children are assessed is incorrect in the first place and not good preparation for modern life, creative thinking, innovation etc. This is why the top end parents choose private schools because private schools are free from the national curriculum and can easily prepare for the skills a technological world requires.

However, in a global world to tax and disincentive some high achieving parents and high achieving DC to get the best education possible makes zero sense for the country as a whole. We live in a capitalist society and a global one - so value creation at the top just creates more value. It does take away from the bottom, far from it.
If anything you just disincentive further talent from entering the UK. Especially the Asian talent we now rely on - to those countries education is everything. This is also why places like poorer Vietnam still do so well. Scrap grammars, put privates out of reach - they won’t come here anymore.
Educational aspiration is everything and the question should be how to make the poorest and most disadvantaged aspire more and see hope for themselves and their DC.

I must admit I snorted at the comment about private school boys all wearing black North Face puffa jackets. My 15 year old posho’s latest purchase is indeed a black North Face puffa jacket. BUT he bought it second hand. He can’t afford North Face brand new and neither can I. (Yes the school fees do take up the vast majority of our income; yes my mum helps pay them; yes we’d be screwed if he was further down the school when labour and their ridiculous illogical policy come in.)

@SaffronSpice ,

‘North face puffa jackets round here are the typical uniform of the gangs of teens who truant from the state schools and cause trouble in the city centre.’

How can they afford them then?

Because its not only poorer kids who truant plus some parents are happy to spend spare money on branded clothes.

Branded clothing/trainers can be very important to teenagers in deprived areas. It is about pride, social recognition and self esteem. There huge social pressure that doesn’t exist in the same way where people are accepted as having money and are making free choices about how to spend it.

This is just sweeping generalisations, like the post about all private school children loving secondhand book sales. My nieces and nephews are London private school folk, they are not at secondhand book sales on a Saturday night and they 'do' own North Face jackets and branded clothing, they wouldn't go near Vinted like my DS but guess what, they all get on really well so it is irrelevant!

Money worries are not a problem though and yet they still spend there money on branded clothing! This will blow your mind, the house is also full of books; books also inhabit my home, the home of state school children, you may need to sit down for this additional shock, we don't own any North Face jackets!

You have completely missed the point. Your nieces and nephews might make a point of refusing to buy second hand textbooks in favour of buying identical but brand new ones when buying their book lists. And may choose to buy top end fashion trends. But that is different from the pressures on poorer families to spend a disproportionate amount of their income on branded items needed for social recognition.

Indeed. So many spiteful people.

Well that will won't happen with this policy.

Many do not have it to pay.

Agree @Snugglemonkey
anyone who thinks everyone can pay more have no clue at all of the makeup of the majority of private schools.

Agree @Snugglemonkey I don’t think many have read the financial reports and analysis of Labours woefully inaccurate estimates. Yet again
cutting off their nose to spite their face,