If labour win the election can they introduce VAT immediately?

[londonparent321]

(For school fees) Or do they need to go through the courts which could take years /never happen?

Why did you stay in one till 12, given your absolute hatred of them? Have you had the conversation with your parents how much they've obviously ruined your life sending you to one @Goldenbear?

“The only thing I don't understand about your argument is what about social mobility for children in the state system, surely a good education system for the majority is more useful for society than a 'good' and 'well funded' education for the minority?”

All children should have social mobility and access to great education especially those children who have been held back by their own parents. However, I disagree about whose responsibility that would be. It should be a concerted but positive local effort from the start. I believe the Tories have actually tried this by raising the national curriculum standards substantially, but unfortunately they failed to fund ancillary services to support just that greater achievement and they failed to fund schools to the extent necessary to get to that point. Because it is obvious is it not? That if a child has parents who never buy books or take them to the library that the school would then need extra staffing and time to fill those gaps?

I also believe all people who die should give at least 10% inheritance tax back (let’s say above an estate value of 10k). It baffles me that that is not the case in this country. The whole philosophy seems to be to get the rich when everyone should be contributing substantially into the system so that everyone has a say and a stake in the system.

Can you imagine there might be an array of reasons something happens in this world and that not everyone has a straight forward existence? It isn't relevant to my posts.

My parents were not together by that point, fwiw they argued about it and didn't agree ideologically.

Also, how much agency do you think I had as a young child on educational choices, believe it or not I went to a school from 2.7 years old that was one of their choices.

@twistyizzy ,

‘And state school kids don't wear the same clothes and go to the same coffee shops? All teenagers do that because they are tribal and want to fit in.
Ironically at DDs private school no-one gives a crap what brands/labels/not branded clothes they each wear. Unlike the local state where it is all £100+ Viviennr Westwood shoes + Marc Jacobs bags and kids get bullied for not having these items.
But thank you for your insightful sweeping generalisations and stereotypes.’

Well no, at most state schools they don’t, because the coffees are actually pretty expensive if you are on a national average income.

And there is no irony about your daughter’s private school not currently wearing labels, although I don’t believe no one ‘gives a stuff’. Teenagers use signifiers, you just probably don’t know what they are. Having worked in two private schools, I did at the time. Another teacher, who had worked in a high end boarding school where they really tried to limit showing off by having an extensive set of uniform rules, told me that what became important was the thread count on their duvets….

But I don’t know why you find stating an obvious truth to be so offensive? You select pupils by a combination of money (mostly where I taught) and ability, and they all come from roughly the same area, where will diversity come from? Lack of diversity isn’t all bad, it has its pluses and minuses, like most things in life.

So there are no rich kids at state? That's bolocks because they are many posters on here who say they could afford private but choose not to. Grammars are also state and by and large they tend to have pupils whose parents have the money to tutor extensively etc.
You don't accept that some private school kids are on bursaries therefore patenys are on average, or below, wages?
Don't patronise me by saying I'm not aware of what teenage signifiers are.

Diversity isn't just about economic differences you know. Yes DDs private school is economically less diverse than the local state school but it is dramatically more ethnically and socially diverse than the state.
State = 1% ethnicity other than White British, DDs school = 18% ethnicity other than White British.
State = 3% FSM, DDs school = 11% bursaries
DDs school = 13% International students

@Newbutoldfather - do you think this VAT policy will harm teachers in the private sector?

they all go to the same coffee shops, wear the same clothes (normally a black North Face puffa jacket amongst other things) and holiday in the same type of places.

Perhaps it’s different depending on area, but where I live, the children wearing North Face and “designer” clothes are the state schools. At our private school, most of the kids are happy to wear their school coat (a uniform item substantially cheaper than North Face) out of school, and just wear normal jeans and jumpers from places like H&M/Zara. They don’t all holiday in the same type of places. Many stay in the UK for holidays. The stereotyping of private schools is ridiculous. Perhaps some are like you describe, but certainly not the ones I have experience of.

I think it is more dependent on type of child than school. In my DD’s grammar there were lots of autistic nerdy girls wearing either leggings (when they were no longer even popular with the mums) and some really creative handmade clothing was on show as well. Only the social media conscious girls wore brands like North Face, Stussy, Brandy Melville. And a lot of the comp girls wear just that because they are more stereotypical as a group then the really hardworking girls at the grammar. But you will get a bit of both in both schools and the local privates the picture is exactly the same.
I would expect at top public schools they may even look down on North Face and Canada Goose etc being too nouveau riche anyway.

Also the kids on the whole in our London grammar schools are not “rich”. You need about £50 a week for the whole of Year 5 to be spent to get into grammar so that is a total outlay of about £2600 plus a few books. So it is a one off investment of under 3k which many immigrant families will do, but they are not “rich”. Many live in flats. There is not much FSM but rich they are not. I suspect the top comps with small catchment areas have far, far richer kids in them because you need to be able to afford housing in the catchment to get in.

Absolutely
And your comment on inheritance tax is spot on.
Leaving enough for a funeral ( I think it’s £8000 now but that could have increased ) and then everyone pays tax.
The Swedish system has also been talked about here where every earning is taxed without lower earner exemptions.

Can you only be hardworking if you don't have a tribe, in terms of fashion?

My state school and 6th college DC like but second hand D pop and Vinted as they like the retro stuff and eldest in particular has environmental concerns.

it seems a good number of posters think Bexit has some positives afterall.

Of course you can have a tribe, be fashion conscious and be hardworking. But in my DD’s school there is a large group of girls who are very nerdy and not fashion conscious one bit. They just won’t spend the time it takes to order on Vinted, go to the shops, research deals online to get clothes. They will just wear whatever eg their mum buys or the first thing they get their hands on. Or just wear the same type of jeans and jumpers for years.
Vinted takes time and effort.

I’ve noticed this. There seems to be a lot of people very vocal and anti-Brexit, saying that all it’s done is bring negatives, but also say “ah well, I quite like the bit of Brexit which means we can tax private schools”

“The Swedish system has also been talked about here where every earning is taxed without lower earner exemptions.”

I lived in Switzerland years ago and virtually everyone has to fill in an actual yearly tax form and be quite literate about it. I believe Sweden is the same. Imagine if everyone had to tax responsibility for and fill in a complicated tax form here every year? And then you would also get a dedicated HMRC case worker who you can actually talk to and get through to?

I do wonder if they realise the irony though

@Araminta1003 ,

Where private schools are more like businesses is thatteachers are paid according to supply and demand far more.

If you teach a scarcity subject, as I did, you got paid substantially more (with the same experience etc) as someone teaching a non scarcity subject. I was lucky to teach a scarcity subject and when I retired/left my last school, I was on well over twice the starting salary of teachers.

Now, schools will never admit to this, you just get placed at a point on the ‘spine’ well above where you would realistically be given age and experience so they can say all teachers are paid the same.

As for VAT, the schools will get away with what they can. During the inflation spike, fees where I taught went up about 7% whereas teachers were given 4% I think. So the schools pocketed the majority of the additional 3%, which they partially justified as preparing for VAT.

Over the last few years, private school teachers have been increasingly paid more than state school teachers, which is more and more creating two separate teaching pools.

The whole VAT thing was very foreseeable.

I have been telling anyone who would listen at both the schools I have taught that private schools needed to get ahead of the PR game by preemptively showing why they were a benefit to the whole community.

This would mean more bursaries and also opening facilities (grounds, buildings etc) to local state schools when we weren’t using them. Also it would involve offering rare subject A levels and Oxbridge enhancement classes to the local state school where they couldn’t support them themselves.

To be fair, some private schools did do all the above, but they were few and far between. The latest sixth form centre build out or setting up a franchise in the far east generally took priority,

It was kind of acknowledged, and I was part of some good schemes, but it was too little, too late. And now the VAT hike is likely to become a reality, I am honestly not crying about it.

You've worked in the most deprived schools and yet you think private schools reflect most accurately the diversity of economic backgrounds in society? Really?

There seems to be a lack of understanding of ‘diversity’ here. One I see reflected more widely in the DEI industry - that ‘diversity’ means more of a chosen group, specifically one labelled ‘oppressed’.

A deprived school in a deprived neighbourhood is likely to be populated by a very uniform population often without much diversity at all. A private school, especially one with a generous bursary scheme, may well have children from across the economic strata, certainly a bigger geographic spread, and parents with different backgrounds who have been successful in a range of professions, trades and businesses.

As for VAT, the schools will get away with what they can. During the inflation spike, fees where I taught went up about 7% whereas teachers were given 4% I think. So the schools pocketed the majority of the additional 3%, which they partially justified as preparing for VAT.

It is not just teachers salaries that went up, schools also needed to cover large jumps in the price of utilities, resources, transport etc.

“It was kind of acknowledged, and I was part of some good schemes, but it was too little, too late. And now the VAT hike is likely to become a reality, I am honestly not crying about it.”

You said you were out of the game and have left? Do you really not worry about your former colleagues and friends?
I have a lot of friends who teach in the private sector. They are all lovely, close to each other and very worried about this. How it will affect them? The do a purposeful job that generally only quite good people do and here we have an incoming Government that dislikes private schools? It is quite demoralising is it not? Even if you dislike the recent management style of your school.

It’s more a potential incoming Government that dislike offering choice!

@Araminta1003 ,

I don’t tbh.

Both of my schools have planned and budgeted for years for this.

They both have waiting lists, which won’t change if fees go up 10% or so, so my ex colleagues will be fine. I went out with 4 ex-colleagues for dinner the other evening, the only one who mentioned VAT was me, asking about what effect it was having!

Maybe my views are coloured as I teach a scarcity subject, but I and most of my good colleagues could walk into another job any time. If even private schools need Maths or Physics teachers, they get at best a handful of applications.

But, putting on my other hat as an ex governor of a small state primary, I really do worry for the teachers there. As teachers move up the spine, they become increasingly untenable to hold on to. The best teacher, for a struggling state, is the keen ECT2, confident in their practice, but dirt cheap.

Private schools (on the whole) will hardly be affected by this. In a couple of years, it will be forgotten about.

My personal favourite is

"hardly a lesson on diversity, just another globally rich young person that is no different from a young rich person with an expensive car in another country"

Can you imagine if someone said "just another sink estate FSM student that is no different from any other FSM student"

The stereotyping and sheer ridiculousness of the statement is much more obvious in that direction, isn't it?

But you're right, some of the posters on here really don't listen to themselves