20% vat on fees

[namechangedforthisone35]

IF Labour get in and IF the 20% does get added to fees, how many private school pupils will be moved to state? I have three kids (one not school aged yet) and in private school. One of many reasons because I didn't want them in a class of 30. I couldn't afford the vat increase so would have to move them but then that class of 30 becomes, what, 40?! In an already strained and unresourced system?!

Wwyd?

Y - I'd have to move kids to state
N - I'll pay the vat

I love how free and easy people are when it applies to someone else being hit for more tax, not them

https://www.taxpayersalliance.com/counting_the_costs_of_labour_s_private_school_vat_plans

https://ifs.org.uk/articles/should-government-levy-vat-private-school-fees

Original report here: https://ifs.org.uk/publications/tax-private-school-fees-and-state-school-spending

IFS in their YouTube are clearly not that comfortable with the original report being hailed by Labour politicians as gospel given all the caveats.

People need to read the tax opinions and make up their own minds. At the end of the day, human behaviour will dictate this kind of policy thing. We saw it with the 50p in a pound tax rate.

I also recommend this site in general https://taxpolicy.org.uk/category/analysis/ explains in simple terms how ridiculous our tax system really is.

Tax isn't voluntary, do you want to go back to the Victorian age when schools and hospitals were all provided through charities?

the pp has already said they pay a lot of tax, if the govt deems they or anyone else has to pay more, it'll be through changes in a budget etc not by demanding "voluntary" means.

Anti VAT posters really should have a better argument (some do btw)

Paul Johnson makes a good case for VAT on fees & no Lab has said its transformational funding either, at around 2% of education budget.

He also highlights the ever increasing gap between the state and private sectors.

Tax payers Alliance is a right wing low tax organisation, shady overseas funding too.

Good links but i'm not sure you ve strengthened your case.

Seems to me, this is more about the wealthy wanting to keep more of their money, which i guess is how they got wealthy in the first place.

Paul Johnson makes a good case for VAT on fees & no Lab has said its transformational funding either, at around 2% of education budget.

That is not what I heard. He essentially states it is a moral tax and won’t lead to better public services.

Moral taxes don’t work.

If you live in London and have seen how ULEZ has played out you will know what I mean. We have had no end of issues with vandalised traffic lights carrying the ULEZ cameras at crossings, including opposite schools. Increase in spend for repairs, increase risk of road traffic accidents and endangerment of children. And it has led to the Tories capitalising on the issue massively. Not a win in my opinion, far from it.

There are better arguments already discussed

But that particular poster who has posted many times on the ‘elite’ hasn’t helped themselves

Whats a "moral tax" ?

A tiny number of people have damaged ULEZ traffic cameras and its a not an argument to stop trying to improve air quality.

Unless you re suggesting private school users will take part in civil unrest?

@Absolutely45 - it is far from a tiny amount of damaged cameras and it is an ongoing issue.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/antiulez-campaigners-vandalise-two-cameras-in-bromley-south-east-london-b1132391.html#:~:text=Police%20have%20launched%20an%20investigation,Mayor%20of%20London%20Sadiq%20Khan.

A moral tax is a tax used to control behaviour and punish rather than to raise revenue. It usually leads to the opposite outcome.

Has any senior Labour figure been asked and satisfactorily explained how they can state in good faith that an incoming Labour government will not deviate from EU laws and yet will impose VAT on education in this country? Both statements cannot be true. It would be helpful if a senior Labour figure would confirm which is the lie.

Can all the cheerleaders for the VAT on education on this thread please confirm that they are fine with 20% VAT being applied on after-school tuition for kids struggling to do their sums, on speech and drama for a shy kid, on piano lessons for 7 year olds? That’s all education, folks.

I am also worried about our local conservatoires and charitable music trusts. Will they be caught?

Sole traders under the VAT threshold are fine but anyone over, who knows what will happen. These politicians are never in control of their own lofty self centred ideals.

“Unless you re suggesting private school users will take part in civil unrest?”

I think they will adjust their behaviour to the detriment of HMRC and the country as a whole. As posters have said, demanding the SEN funding their children are rightfully entitled to, dropping working hours, moving to Dubai, making charitable donations to private schools on gift aid/inheritance tax, setting up tax structures, paying in advance, moving into catchment of state schools, tutoring for grammar The list is endless.

But call it the posh version of civil unrest if you like.

There comes a point with taxation where those paying the highest marginal tax rates say no more, no thanks. However, maybe that is a good thing? Maybe we need intelligent professionals to start demanding greater transparency on where their taxes actually go and how inefficiently they are spent. Maybe let’s let them vote with their feet. Those lower down the rungs can’t do that as they are dependent on the benefits the system pays out. Those further up can adjust their behaviour. All our consultants and doctors have at great expense to the country as a whole because if we have nobody left to look after the sick and deal with the waiting lists, people simply cannot work properly anymore. Teachers have also left in droves. You can’t keep bashing people with higher expectations, paperwork and no money in return. And yes, a fair amount of teachers and doctors do send their kids to private school as well.

My local Labour MP can't explain the policy. He obfuscates and won't meet me face to face to discuss. He is unable to give me a reply as to how they will do it when meals, transport and boarding can not be VAT charged. Or how it will impact forces families or DC with SEN but no ECHP who can't cope in mainstream education.
It is a strapline policy with no substance or thought behind it.

Tbf it’s all Labour have

And people expect so much

“Has any senior Labour figure been asked and satisfactorily explained how they can state in good faith that an incoming Labour government will not deviate from EU laws and yet will impose VAT on education in this country? Both statements cannot be true. It would be helpful if a senior Labour figure would confirm which is the lie. “

And we also need a full list of the state schools all Labour MPs have chosen for their own children. So we can assess what type of state school they have access to.

It is the red Labour bus that will solve state education with only 1.5 billion 😁.

When they realise that VAT on schools and tax on non-doms won’t fund all their spending promises, they’ll start looking at other things to tax. If they manage to change the VAT legislation to catch private schools, they’ll likely start looking at what else they can catch - universities, nurseries, care homes, private healthcare etc.

I believe the Non Dom thing will solve everything else - from NHS to crime

It’s been spent already multiple times even though it’s tiny

Oh and don’t tell Labour these people can leave easily anyway

“When they realise that VAT on schools and non-doms won’t fund all their spending promises, they’ll start looking at other things to tax. If they manage to change the VAT legislation to catch private schools, they’ll likely start looking at what else they can catch - universities, nurseries, care homes, private healthcare etc.”

Well it won’t be capital gains taxes on their own houses in posh postcodes and catchment of the best comprehensives with grammar style streaming in the country. Or will it?

They've spent it in so many different ways already too:

• Mental health counsellors in every school
• more teachers
• free school meals

Yes I noticed that too. 3 ways to spend 1 tiny pot of money.
Plus they will need to sort RAAC which on its own will cost multiple times more than the 1.5 billion.

It’s the economic illiteracy that gets me

I suppose people will realise after a decent sector is damaged for little gain

My bet is that whatever isn't eaten up by schools claiming back all their VAT for the last 4 years will be spent on legal fees.

Schools don’t have to pass more costs on to parents. Like any business that you use the services of, parents can complain or vote with their feet and go elsewhere.
or, and I know this horrifies many parents whose private schools, you could - call me crazy- not use private schools.

You’ve forgotten all the dentists they’re going to magic up, the 2m extra NHS appointments by making the NHS round the clock, with appointments in the evenings and at weekends and the extra health visitors they are going to recruit. It’s amazing how far school VAT and non dom tax is going to go. It’d be funny if it wasn’t so serious.