20% vat on fees

[namechangedforthisone35]

IF Labour get in and IF the 20% does get added to fees, how many private school pupils will be moved to state? I have three kids (one not school aged yet) and in private school. One of many reasons because I didn't want them in a class of 30. I couldn't afford the vat increase so would have to move them but then that class of 30 becomes, what, 40?! In an already strained and unresourced system?!

Wwyd?

Y - I'd have to move kids to state
N - I'll pay the vat

“What are the statistics? 2/3 of judges are privately educated?”

Judges get paid far less than successful barristers so usually the already rich person is incentivised to become a judge, not the state educated now earning highly barrister or solicitor. Pay your judges more and things will soon change! Same applies to politicians.

Banning private schools was precisely what the Labour Party voted for around 4 years ago. Lots of people who voted for that are still in senior positions in the Labour Party. The plan was only dropped presumably because they realised it wasn’t workable. They would still love to abolish them if they could.

Of course they would. However I’m surprised they are doing the VAT thing, since, as many pp have pointed out, it’s the smaller schools which will suffer, whereas schools like Eton and Harrow which many in the Labour Party particularly hate, will probably be ok.
Since Keir Starmer is such a hot shot lawyer surrounded by highly intelligent advisors, I’m surprised he can’t come up with a plan which would hurt those elite schools.

“They are stock images and the kids are professional models who paid to put on the uniforms and pose for them. You can go to one of the outlets like Shutterstock and put in 'posh UK school kids' and get 80 varieties of boaters and blazers to illustrate your article.”

OK so we are meant to believe the drivel spouted by some journalist (who I previously thought of highly) using fake images to create an emotional reaction in Joe Blog public? Who is very thick and emotional, right?

What next? Big banners on the side of London buses starting “3 billion for state schools from Posho School VAT”.

Yikes - can you imagine the mess when they all start applying for an EHCP to already bankrupt councils...

Have they said what they plan to do about the specialist dance and music schools where the government already pay all or some of the fees. How about Crown Servants and Armed Forces?

Lawyers will be rubbing their hands with glee here. Two children, same SEN, same private school, one funded by the council with EHCP, another funded by parents because they've never done the EHCP process. This is going to cost a fortune...

Hundreds of thousands of us with kids with diagnosed SEN have never gone down the EHCP path - till now.

It’s because the policy is nothing more than a perceived populist vote winner. Unfortunately, too many of the electorate believe the media portrayal of every private school being rammed with ultra wealthy, extensive grounds, elaborate uniforms, beautiful buildings etc. They believe that adding VAT just “taxes the rich”, and they believe that we will suddenly have all this extra money to throw at state schools to solve all the problems there. Too many people believe the media spin on private schools “avoiding” tax.

You’d think that the “highly intelligent advisors” and Keir Starmer with his legal experience might have realised years ago that stripping schools of charitable status was never going to work. It seems to have taken these so called experts years to realise that stripping them of this status would not be workable and wouldn’t lead to VAT being chargeable anyway. How have they only just realised this? They are scrabbling around to try to find workable solutions.

Exactly. They seem so intent on taxing the “privileged elite” somehow that I really don’t think they’ve thought about the practicalities. The cost of legal fees (there are bound to be legal challenges), administering the imposition of VAT (processing VAT returns) etc is going to be astronomical. It makes absolutely no economic sense. All they care about is gaining votes.

“It’s because the policy is nothing more than a perceived populist vote winner. Unfortunately, too many of the electorate believe the media portrayal of every private school being rammed with ultra wealthy, extensive grounds, elaborate uniforms, beautiful buildings etc. They believe that adding VAT just “taxes the rich”, and they believe that we will suddenly have all this extra money to throw at state schools to solve all the problems there. Too many people believe the media spin on private schools “avoiding” tax.

You’d think that the “highly intelligent advisors” and Keir Starmer with his legal experience might have realised years ago that stripping schools of charitable status was never going to work. It seems to have taken these so called experts years to realise that stripping them of this status would not be workable and wouldn’t lead to VAT being chargeable anyway. How have they only just realised this? They are scrabbling around to try to find workable solutions.”

We have a problem with media influence clearly. We have had a problem with the media for years. When are politicians going to sort out the undue influence/power of the media on politics and the political process? Seems even more urgent to me than the education question. I hope the next generation will find a way around this given they use different sources.

The problem is that making unfounded promises is problematic. Some private school teachers will have already been taken out of TPS because of this. Some parents will already have remortgaged to prepay fees for their SEN kid because they are so worried. Some damage is already done with unfounded threats like these.

How have they only just realised this?

I wondered that. Maybe Starmer thought it was a sop to those in the party who wanted private schools completely and that maybe a way would be found to implement it.
As pp have said, re VAT, there are going to be some interesting legal ramifications about dance and music schools and children of serving soldiers posted abroad.

Sorry ‘wanted private schools banned completely’.

‘It’s because the policy is nothing more than a perceived populist vote winner.’

by whom? It’s not though is it? It’s long overdue. The Charity Commission weren't brave enough to do something about tightening up on what actually defines charity when it comes to these businesses ( or perhaps the fact that it’s stuffed to the gills itself with ex-public school types influenced their decisions) someone has got to deal with it.

by whom?

By those not great at economics or behavioural impact who think the ‘elite’ should pay

I reckon it is this kind of study that drives the fiscal attack on private schools https://cls.ucl.ac.uk/privately-educated-are-twice-as-likely-to-be-consistent-conservative-voters-says-research/

It is not about what makes sense for the current education sector and the actual children in it and their parents, but what makes sense for the party that drives this kind of illogical crazy policy where the maths does not stack up.

This is why the studying they are relying on is defining income elite too low as well. There is a huge difference between the top 10/5/1 and 0.1 per cent of earners that they are covering up. Fact of the matter is that the highest marginal tax payers who have also lost child benefit/personal allowance absolutely everything should not be penalised with this type of tax. It is entirely unfair. And any child who is in the private sector because they could not cope in the state sector should also not be penalised. We need to get the actual figures on those aspects.

While the UK was part of the EU, it was illegal to charge VAT on education. So hardly 'overdue' and the UK will be an outlier in the world if they do. Also rather goes against Starmer's declaration that he won't seek to move away from EU laws... this one is a biggie.

The charity status is completely separate from the VAT stuff - Labour have already U-turned on this as they know it's unworkable. Have you not realised that has been off the table now for months?

I think it is far worse than that.

I think the Labour Party think the privately educated are Tories and sending your children to private schools will make them into Tories as well. So let’s stop people sending kids to private school (we can’t ban the top ones nor strip charitable status but we can at least bleed the smaller players dry drop by drop with VAT) whether it makes sense or not for the country as a whole, who cares. It is bad faith politics, just like Brexit. That was all about uniting the infighting in the Tory party, see what happened there. They have destroyed themselves with their toxic views.

What makes sense for the whole country especially the children in it has to outweigh what seemingly makes sense for the party or to unite it. We have to learn that lesson.

And this is also why for any policy that any party now proposes that affects many there has to be a detailed study undertaken first by Parliament into the actual real ramifications. We cannot keep letting politicians spin us lies. It is really important for democracy and the legal process that this is done properly.

Whazzabanger you keep talking about charities. What has that to do with the VAT question that is the subject of this thread?

The elite which apparently doesn’t include households on 400k+.

@Whazzabanger do you think you pay enough tax on your 400k+ household income? If not how much voluntary tax do you pay on top of the statutory amounts?

Sorry but i'm very pro EU, this country would have far better public services if we governed ourselves like most of Europe does & i'd run a mile from the idiots in Memento.

On banning PS, that was 4 years ago under Corbyn and party conf votes don't equal party manifesto policy BUT if it were in their manifesto, i'd not vote Labour.
IF correct that this policy will lead to PS closures/raise no tax, then its a bad policy but is there actual evidence for this or is it conjecture?

Who pays just 70k tax on a salary of 400k?

Well the elite is ‘everyone else who can pay’ to that poster

Not their top wage

She said that both she and her DP pay more than £70k tax. So it's £140k+ in tax on 2 salaries.
She's also fortunate enough to have a state school tht teaches in classes of 12-20 so in something of a privileged position.

When I mentioned that I pay over 70k income tax every year, they stated that both they and their DP both paid over 70k income tax each which means a household income of approx 400k+.

You earn more and therefore pay more in tax, it’s how the system works. I’m grateful that my career means I have a much more comfortable life now than as a child, but he’s of course that means paying a lot in tax too.

How much voluntary tax do you pay?