20% vat on fees

[namechangedforthisone35]

IF Labour get in and IF the 20% does get added to fees, how many private school pupils will be moved to state? I have three kids (one not school aged yet) and in private school. One of many reasons because I didn't want them in a class of 30. I couldn't afford the vat increase so would have to move them but then that class of 30 becomes, what, 40?! In an already strained and unresourced system?!

Wwyd?

Y - I'd have to move kids to state
N - I'll pay the vat

Yes i totally understand this.

The problem though is whilst you can afford an alternative, 90% of parents cannot & this is the real problem.

If this country is ever going to reach its potential then improving education has to be its number 1 goal.

But there does seem to be vested interests determined not to do this, take Teachers pay and workload for example.

And if you could get a good education in state then what's the issue?

“Buying nice new LR does add to the UKs manufacturing economy, employment and tax take, your school fees for 2 children over 5 years would be about 3 Land Rovers, not 1.”

Sure, because buy British and holiday in Britain is such a deeply ingrained thing and that is what everyone is aspiring to do?

Have you got some figures to back that one up. Because where I am sitting many people buy foreign cars benefitting companies paying corporation tax in other economies and employing persons there and they also holiday in foreign economies and their flights are not taxed at 20 per cent either.

Sorry i thought LRs where still made in UK, turns out they are designed here but built in Slovakia, probably due to having a better educated workforce?

But a new car will still attract 20% VAT.

I totally agree. I would happily use the state system if those schools could help my children reach their potential. We were state educated ourselves. I’m not choosing to pay tens of thousands of pounds a year for the fun of it. My point is that attacking the private system is not the answer to improving the state sector.

I think it’s an absolute disgrace that parents without the necessary funds have no choice but to send their children to dreadful schools. Some state schools (especially in selective/grammar areas) are great. It should not be a postcode lottery.

@Absolutely45- every British private school employs people here who pay income taxes and they employ other staff and builders etc etc so in terms of contribution to the economy there is simply no argument to be had by comparing it with luxury mainly foreign cars and luxury foreign holidays.
Plus they are educating mainly a next generation of mainly U.K. tax payers, although it seems the Labour Party don’t want those future tax payers to stay.

If you could get a good education in the state sector, there might be an argument for adding VAT. Many people can’t get a good education in the state sector though, as things currently stand.

err i don't think Labour are proposing banning private schools.

Wouldn't it be nice if we could educate more British children to get better paid jobs and pay more tax?

Fwiw high numbers of foreign students in the private sector, will they stay here and work?

The Labour Party absolutely know that a 20 per cent tax on a large number of smaller private schools will lead to their closure. Leading to job losses for teachers and children suffering.

I don’t think a lot of people realise the amount of staff employed by private schools, with the accompanying taxes paid on that.

@Absolutely45 - where are you getting your facts from?!

“International students account for 4.6 per cent of all pupils at the 1,388 ISC schools covered in January 2022, compared with 5.4 per cent in 2019.”

Or by “foreign” do you mean children of foreign born parents working and paying taxes in the UK? You know the ones we rely on in the NHS and generally?

Banning private schools was precisely what the Labour Party voted for around 4 years ago. Lots of people who voted for that are still in senior positions in the Labour Party. The plan was only dropped presumably because they realised it wasn’t workable. They would still love to abolish them if they could.

https://amp.theguardian.com/education/2019/sep/22/labour-delegates-vote-in-favour-of-abolishing-private-schools

Fwiw high numbers of foreign students in the private sector, will they stay here and work?

Probably not, along with a lot of other students. Why would they stay here and work? Why would highly educated students not choose to live and work in countries which value them? Sadly, in the UK, we are pushing these people away.

So you admit your kids get a better education than most do in the state sector, why don't we address this? the argument over VAT tbh is a distraction

Mind don't get a better education than most in state. Hence why I'm moving them.

The thinking of the hardcore Brexiteers and Memento really is not that different. It is incredibly tribal and black and white. Evil EU, evil private schools. There are no nuances to this type of thinking, nor any proper academic thought nor analysis. None of them are fit to govern the country in a very complex post pandemic world with lots of difficult foreign relationships to navigate and wars. It is really quite worrying.

I was supporting your point, but I take issue with: "If you could get a good education in the state sector, there might be an argument for adding VAT"

Why as the state would you try to make it more difficult for those who are willingly saving you money by footing the bill for education themselves? If anything, this should be tax deductible.

The article includes a line "beyond special educational needs places (which Labour’s VAT charge would exclude)". Anybody have any information about this?

Correlation isn't causation, but it's difficult not to notice a relationship between the hardest core Brexiteers and the least fit to govern the country, and private education.

“The article includes a line "beyond special educational needs places (which Labour’s VAT charge would exclude)". Anybody have any information about this?”

It is something the Labour Party promised would be excluded. I assume it means actual SEN funded places. Not children with mild SEN in the private sector without EHCPs. However, assuming a child is funded by local authority and sent to a private school one would assume the local authority won’t have to pay the VAT. Somehow.

I'm sorry, what is your point? That society will be better off if privately educated, easy to manage plodders run things?

“I'm sorry, what is your point? That society will be better off if privately educated, easy to manage plodders run things?”

Where did I state “run things?”. I was talking about employment in professional jobs and paying taxes.

By “run things” - do you mean run the country? Do you mean the Party in Power?
Because let’s face it, the Labour Party hate private schools because the Conservative Party has a higher representation of privately educated MPs than they do. They pride themselves on having more state educated MPs. It is entirely tribal us vs them and trying to destroy the Tory long term stronghold, which somehow apparently is fostered in the single rooms at Eton College. It has nought to do with small private schools in the Midlands full of dyslexic kids and milder SEN kids and a few doctor kids.

And because we are in an election year, we are now fed all this drivel. Including by otherwise well established journalists who write regularly for https://www.newstatesman.com/about-us-newstatesman They want to feed us a whole lot of basic drivel in the Guardian lacking in nuance and analysis. Because we the general public we are so thick and tribal too. Evil private schools. It is so simple.

A lot of people believe that big business runs the country, if not pays taxes. They find political donations to have a higher return on investment.

What are the statistics? 2/3 of judges are privately educated? 2/3 of top CEOs are privately educated? You don't think it would be worthwhile to get some more of the talent in the bottom 80% into those positions?

Oh yes I totally agree! Personally I would never add VAT onto school fees. As you say, those who a paying for their own education are saving taxpayers money. It should be encouraged if anything.

They are stock images and the kids are professional models who paid to put on the uniforms and pose for them. You can go to one of the outlets like Shutterstock and put in 'posh UK school kids' and get 80 varieties of boaters and blazers to illustrate your article.

From The Telegraph

“Labour has suggested VAT will not apply to the fees of local authority funded children with an Education, Health and Care Plan (EHCP), which is required for children who have SEN. But as the ISC has pointed out – there are 103,000 SEN students in the private sector but only 7,000 of them have an EHCP.”

To be honest, Labour don’t have a clue how their plans could be implemented. They’ve already had to abandon their promise to strip schools of charitable status. There are lots of issues which need to be looked at to avoid unintended consequences re VAT. I wouldn’t be surprised if the costs involved in trying to avoid these consequences outstrip any tax raised.