Is anyone else worried about the effect of rising private school fees on state schools?

[BabyIcecream]

Where I live there already aren't enough school places. Three big state secondary's, one is catholic, they are all over subscribed and bursting at the seams using old buildings with not enough funding.

Ive seen reports that at some private schools upto a third of pupils might leave if the fees go up due to VAT.

I'm worried about all these extra pupils needing places, DS already finds his school overcrowded and whilst I don't agree with private education putting extra pupils into the state system is just going to further disadvantage our children.

Unless money raised by increasing private schools costs is going to be used to fund state education? Does anyone know?

@user1497207191 but then they will probably try to go after these providers too because they offer an unfair advantage to those privileged enough to afford them. Why does levelling up always end up as such a race to the bottom? Instead of trying to raise state standards they want to knock down private schools.

The vast majority of people who find private schools "disgusting" wouldn't if they could afford to use them.

The nursery point is interesting. My DS’ independent school has a day nursery attached to it. When does the VAT start to kick in? Reception class?! Compulsory school age?

Oh, I did invest, both (a lot of) time and money, into my child's state school - to no avail. They couldn't even manage to do English and Maths every day, let alone any other subject, and completely ignored our concerns and pleas for help when our child was get bullied so badly they wanted to kill themselves. Their solution? Refuse to even have a meeting with us about the issue and put the bully sitting next to my child each day.

So its not about rich kids not mingling with commoners, its about an absolutely broken state system and refusal to engage with parents who genuinely want to help and had given up years of time supporting other children, not my own, in the state schooling system.

You are deluded if you think this Labour vote winning tactic will make any changes to the state system; instead its just going to create even more divides - sounds awfully a lot like the Tories modus operandi, doesn't it?

I’ve always found it rather surprising how many people I know were ideologically opposed to private education, were very vocal about how they would never use the private sector, but then decided to switch to the private sector when their financial circumstances changed……..

There are many posts on this thread that detail children being moved to private schools after being badly bullied by kids in state schools with no help from the school to resolve it. I’d say it’s these bullies and their parents that are the ‘stain of our country’ rather than parents who just want their kids to go to school without being beaten up. I was one of these kids.

Do you feel the same about private healthcare? I’d say Labour should be concentrating on the fact that many children can’t access NHS dentists.

@YokoOnosBigHat how about private nurseries? SEN schools? Tutors? Extra curriculum sports clubs? All of these are "private" education providers.
The hyperbole of your post is laughable, surely Brexit, our immigration policy, state of NHS, the fact we had Boris Johnson as Prime Minister, the fact that many people cant access a dentist etc are all bigger stains on our country than 7% of kids being educated in private schools?

So that’s everyone who you personally know! I can tell you that many parents at my DS’ prep are considering state options for secondary and have some have admitted that they cannot afford the fees for secondary. But there is a big difference in salaries between hedge fund managers and NHS doctors. We have more of the latter rather than the former at my DS’ school.

@MariaVT65 "There are many posts on this thread that detail children being moved to private schools after being badly bullied by kids in state schools with no help from the school to resolve it."

The assumption that bullying is only an issue in state schools is insulting, ridiculous and untrue.

I think Diane Abbott sent her child to a private school ?

Bullying is just as much an issue, but private schools can deal with the problem rather more easily than state schools... they can literally just wave goodbye.

They also have an incentive to keep paying customers happy.

I don't think they'll be a mass exodus but I do think that people may decide not to start down the private route due to cost. Once in the system people tend to do everything they can to find the funds to stay.
Therefore I think it will have a long term detrimental effect on education for state students due to under funding to support the increased numbers.

I didn’t say it’s just an issue in state schools did I??

I fully acknowledge there is also bullying in private schools. But there is an issue with state schools failing to deal with bullying, which people have spoken about on this thread. I had a group of boys try to beat me up with a scooter at junior school. The school did nothing to help. No one tried to beat me up physically at my particular private school, and if there was any kind of that behaviour, they would be thrown out. I remember some girls getting dentention just because they messed about in the science lab and broke some equipment by accident. The boys at my primary school got no punishment.

I work at a private school. If my school closed/made teachers redundant as a result, I will leave teaching altogether. There is no way I would ever go back to teaching in the state sector with the mess it is in and the behaviour of pupils, especially if there's even more pupils than now. There are already not enough teachers without adding more pupils into state schools.
Also, I think private schools will cut their bursary/scholarship funding first. So it will be the disadvantaged pupils that will be most affected.

Why should private schools get tax breaks? If parents can afford to pay private fees, they need to pay the tax that everyone pays, even the poorest.

I am tired of hearing how parents work so hard and give up so much to privately educate their children, especially when many parents at the moment are hard pushed to feed and clothe their children. Some parents might make supreme efforts to fund their children but I suspect the majority are managing very well.

It’s not a ‘tax break’. Other countries do have rebates which is a different model, and actually can work well

We use the same standards as EU which is no VAT on education.

But why should they do that? They don't owe the children of less hardworking parents their money.

Private school parents pay education tax AND private school tuition.

If the parents invested the amount they could afford to pay a private school into their child's state school surely that would be a brilliant solution for everyone?

My DC’s 6th Form costs £18.5k a year. You seriously think I’m going to donate that to my local 6th form if and when my DC no.2 goes there?

It costs the state £4,560 I believe per student in a state 6th form. I won’t be paying VAT on the 18.5K, and I’ll take my state place. So actually Kier won’t make 0000’s out of me on VAT, I’ll be costing him £9,120 for 6th form.

Times that by quite a few and…….

People without kids pay education tax
People without cars pay road tax
People who have never been burgled pay police tax

Can you see why this argument makes no sense?

I understand it, I'm responding to the pp who said there shouldn't be tax breaks for parents who send kids to private school. We DONT get tax breaks!!

@ellyeth I pay taxes towards all state funded institutions eg schools but choose not to use it so pay additional school fees.

Or their kids were struggling in one of the many crap comps and it was the only way for them to get their kids a decent education even if it meant getting into debt, working extra jobs, not having holidays, etc.

Oh dear, I hope your parents didn’t waste their money on private education for you.

Puddlespityparty I get it you don’t private schools or their charitable status but why so spiteful?