Is anyone else worried about the effect of rising private school fees on state schools?

[BabyIcecream]

Where I live there already aren't enough school places. Three big state secondary's, one is catholic, they are all over subscribed and bursting at the seams using old buildings with not enough funding.

Ive seen reports that at some private schools upto a third of pupils might leave if the fees go up due to VAT.

I'm worried about all these extra pupils needing places, DS already finds his school overcrowded and whilst I don't agree with private education putting extra pupils into the state system is just going to further disadvantage our children.

Unless money raised by increasing private schools costs is going to be used to fund state education? Does anyone know?

Precisely.

With the grammar system, not everyone lives within catchment of a grammar school. The grammar system should either be expanded dramatically or scrapped altogether to make it “fair”.

Schools funded by the state should not be able to discriminate based on religion. It’s not “fair” that children cannot attend certain schools (often highly performing) because their parents do not attend church.

It’s not “fair” that some children get priority access to decent schools because of where they live. To make it “fair”, there should be a lottery system which removes the catchment question.

The inequality across the state system is enormous, and yet people don’t seem to want to do anything about that.

@MarshmellowMoon I imagine this will go through the courts which will probably cost way more money than than it will bring in.

@Veganator Inequality aside, where do you suggest all private school pupils would go if all private schools shut? State schools are bursting as it is (I'm a teacher in one that's over capacity). That's my main concern. I already have 31 in a class, and am stretched giving the pupils the attention they need/deserve.

Yep it really is. Damaging a sector for votes, only done with private schools due to people feeling better about taking stuff away

Mine are both in private schools.

The first one will be out of it by the time it comes in, if it’s an immediate thing. The second will have just finished GCSE’s and I will send him to our local state 6th form as it’s good, and I’m not paying any more money for private fees than I am now, even though I can afford it.

Many of those who are midway will stay and finish their stint e.g junior prep then state secondary, GCSE, then state 6th. People who are thinking about their 3 year olds, will think twice about putting them in the private system.

It’s not just about the money. It’s also about the demonisation of private schools which will ultimately go against the children. I’ll state 6th and pay for tutors.

We are escapees. The low down was that we relocated from the US and my friend had a disabled son for whom the private school we chose had been amazing. Different headmaster and he was there for Yrs5-8 whereas my DC Yrs 2-4.

We escaped to a primary school that got an inadequate Ofsted while we were there but was, in fact, much better at teaching kids. In the year we escaped, his class started as 18 kids and lost almost 1/2 of them.

I think parents with kids already in private secondary schools will keep them there and then flood the state sector at Sixth Form with their strings of 9s. I don’t think the state Sixth Forms will turn those kids or parents down. I think many academies will love to have these kids and parents.

I also think many people won’t do private primary anymore and move into a rich catchment type thing.

I also think the Treasure will make way more more money on stamp duty due to housing moves than on the VAT.

@Wolvesart we won't be privately educating as we are nowhere near being able to afford it. Can't imagine that most private schools will be giving out bursaries when additional support would be needed and autism specialist schools would already have everyone in that boat. I am just glad that some paracetamol able to get that for their children. No point in everyone being caught in this shitshow.

Private school defenders love to claim that their schools are full of ordinary people making sacrifices and scrimping and saving. There is some truth in it, but most private school families are extremely wealthy who can afford holidays, flash cars, and several houses with no trouble whatsoever.

So no, this doesn't worry me at all.

@cupofdecaf Unfortunately parental investment would do nothing to help. Yes, it may buy some nice new resources, help towards building work etc, but fundamental change needs to come from the government. There aren't enough state school teachers for the kids currently in state education. A number of teachers from private schools probably wouldn't want to work in state schools due to poor working conditions (which I'm on the receiving end of!). Change needs to come from the govt.

TrailingLoellia

So once the government have seized all private schools’ property, then what?

Presumably you’d also ban private tutors so maybe an East German style surveillance system could be set up with rewards for anyone who informed on their neighbours for using tutors?

My DS has just sat the 11+ and will go to grammar if he gets in. We had planned to pay for private all the way up but it looks very likely that his private school will go under with the VAT increase and we also just can’t justify even more scrimping and saving for private school fees when there is a good alternative.

Based on our situation, I can’t help thinking that there are three real disadvantages to the current proposal: 1) DS will be taking a grammar place away from a DC who may not be able to afford any other option; 2) educating my DC is going to cost the government far more than they would ever have received in VAT receipts; 3) DS’ school going bust will lose a significant employer in our rural area.

Indeed, so much does depend on what’s available locally. I totally accept we are lucky where we live.

Not all private schools are equal and not all state schools are equal

So the conclusion is that I think anyone moving house for a school catchment, in particular, should tick a special box on their stamp duty form and that money should then go straight into state school education on a compulsory basis.
I absolutely hate this policy as it is a distraction and our state schools desperately need more funding per child and more special schools for children with additional needs.

If I could pay for a private school that had SEN support
I think you'll find the majority of private schools are not interested in SEN support

We are considering private school for my oldest DC recently diagnosed with ASD. He simply will not cope in a large comprehensive. The system is completely broken on all levels. We had to pay for a private assessment and now therapy because the CAMHS waiting list was 4 years long and post diagnosis it turns out there is no funding for any support. I don't think we will be able to afford the private school fees with a 20% increase so my DC will be thrown back into a system which cannot support him. How does this help anyone?
People are delusional if they think the "extra funds " raised will make any difference to state schools. It's just like the extra money from brexit supposedly going into the NHS.
I have never voted conservative but this policy is seriously making me consider it.

@perkynuts which just goes to show you don't know an actual private school. Maybe that's true in London/the uber wealthy schools but the majority are used by top end of middle income families. Most parents at DDs school both work FT and don't have flashy cars/jobs. The occupations range from taxi driver through to consultants. No oligarchs here! The school serves rural farming families, forces DC etc

People do not move internationally to attend our state schools - they do for private. Our private schools are well known as successful internationally. Making those schools less accessible to the Brits who live here does not benefit this country. It will mean more international students.

Posters who object to private education: Would you object if the private schools became available only to overseas students?

Private school defenders love to claim that their schools are full of ordinary people making sacrifices and scrimping and saving. There is some truth in it, but most private school families are extremely wealthy who can afford holidays, flash cars, and several houses with no trouble whatsoever.

Conversely these types of threads are full misinformed posters gleefully willing the closure of private schools. Many of whom have zero experience of private schools. My friend’s kid has just got an academic scholarship with 100% school fees covered, both have very average jobs/earnings. And while I recognise the privileged position i’m in by no means I’m I wealthy, sacrifices have had to be made.

Majority don’t though 🤷‍♀️ shame that they’ve ruined it for the few who do but if it’s not enforced properly this is what happens.

It won’t damage the sector. Most people will find a way to continue to pay. And as PP pointed out these schools will still want / need to be competitive in terms of price.

For some independent schools, like More House School, the vast majority of children attending have special educational needs and their places are funded by the Local Authority via an EHCP. They attend because there is no other suitable school. For those children/schools, a 20% increase in fees would be wholly funded by Local Authorities. This would be a huge increase for Local Aurhorities that are already struggling to balance their budgets. I should imagine that is a consequence that Labour would not be aiming for.

Of course it will. Add 20% to any sector and see what happens.

I’m not surprised private sector feels annoyed by it. It’s one of the things we do well and other countries emulate

Only Starmer’s Labour would hook into go for the rich for votes. Even Blair knew how to avoid that.