Help finding a school which promotes excellence.

[hermani]

DW and I are starting our research on schools. We have not conceived yet but are planning on it and would like to get informed as much as possible since this affects our choice of neighbourhoods, etc.

We have agreed on a handful of characteristics that we think are important for our future-DCs schools:

1. An excellent class environment that provides a safe and nurturing environment for students. We want a setting that promotes intellectual curiosity and that encourages students to excel academically.
2. Well-behaved children who are reasonably respectful of teachers and not disruptive. Want to avoid situations where students talk back to teachers or are hostile to academically-minded peers. Would like a student body that enables teachers to produce excellent outcomes.
3. Low levels of bullying and prompt and effective response by the school whenever bullying occurs.
4. Parents who value education and promote a good environment for their children at home. Want to avoid situations where trouble at home spills over to the school and affects peers negatively.
5. Parents who aim to eventually see their DCs attend top unis and to succeed thereafter.

We are now in the process of identifying schools that reach these ideals. However, we do not know where to start. Would appreciate any recommendations of schools that you think would be a good fit or advice on how to find such schools.

@hermani but you can't control who the peers of your children are. There are disruptive children at all levels and not all parents value education no matter their class or income. In fact some of the worst behaviour in DDs private school comes from the richest kids.
Honestly are you unaware of the current crisis in the state education system? Massive underfunding, teacher shortages, behaviour issues etc?
You can't prevent your children experiencing hindrances, that's what makes resilience. Plus you are assuming that your children will be NT with no SEN/ND.
By the time your children are ready for school that is the time to look, look for the type of school that suits them best, you have zero control over anything else and you are incredibly naive if you think otherwise.

You don't learn about "the world" at an elite school or top university.

A child learns that by being left to their own devices with their mates or allowed to be bored.

What you're talking about is equipping this theoretical child with a highly specific set of skills for corporate and material success.

If that's who they are, go for it.

But don't forget about playing in the mud with their mates and the bedtime stories.

@hermani it would be incredibly rare to find a school with such high academic expectations as on your wishlist to value creativity or anything other than exam results.

My DH is very education focused so I can understand where you are coming from.

You can export Department for Education data (we did this) and sorted by schools in London which had the highest percentage of 'exceeds expectations' or whatever that is called now in all three areas (maths, reading, writing is it? it's been a while) (so you can see that eg 25% of children exceed expectations, or 6%, or 12%, or whatever). This data is only for state primary schools though.

We also cross-referenced with the 'Good Schools Guide' to see what 'leaver destinations' were for primary school, in terms of the secondary school destinations.

What I found was that west, south-west and north London seem to have the higher density of these kinds of schools.

I went to very standard state schools (a pretty crap secondary tbh) and my hope is for an environment where children aren't mocked for being interested in learning.

OP actually I think what you are doing isn't awful - it's a good idea to plan. Often on here people come on saying all the schools near them are awful, what can they do & posters say why didn't you think about/research this before you had kids/moved there? So from that aspect, what you're doing about trying to research is fine.
However, I agree with other PPs that whilst your list is what every parent probably wants for their child, the reality is different. For one the environment of the classroom will vary depending on the teacher & other pupils. And what is a fantastic, nurturing environment one year maybe be complete chaos the next of the teacher changes or because the pupils have changed & will have different needs/abilities etc.
You can get a lot of what you want in some state schools, but the current funding crisis in schools means a lot of the stuff that would contribute to the things on your list (ie more TAs to help more students, sufficient funding for enrichment activities; the latest technology etc) just aren't happening.
So yes, you'd be more likely to what you're after from a few-paying private school who ultimately, want happy customers/parents. But that's not to say that bully, bad teachers etc aren't in private schools - they are. So again, you will need to research the schools you're interested in & vitally talk to current parents.
So I'd suggest look at areas you like, that offer the amenities you want; look at the local school provision & if possible try to get several different schools close by & then wait to see what your Dc are actually like once they're here.

If you are in North London for secondary, the state grammars QE boys and Henrietta Barnett (girls) are very aspirational. Over a quarter of their students go to Oxbridge, over half to top 5 unis and most go into very competitive course (e.g. STEM, medicine, economics etc.). The kids and their parents are very ambitious. I am sure there are other similar state and independent schools too (e.g. St Olaves, Wilson’s, Tiffin, and Private: St Paul’s, Westminster, Habs, City etc.)

I'm sure many of us would like this for our children. Unfortunately one of the key points of school is the presence of other children. And other families. And other ways of life, types or parenting etc. And many of them are in direct conflict with your list of ideals.

This. I just wanted a school that my kids liked being at. And for secondary they chose their own.

I get where you're coming from, but with your DC not even conceived yet, your best bet is to go for a nice area with a good range of selective and non-selective private schools. Or move to Kent, and use a prep school to help get your child into the many grammar schools there for secondary. SW London would definitely work as a starting point though. Lots of people start their families there, then either stay if secondary school works for them, or move to Surrey.

You haven't conceived yet so it will be at least 5 years before your child starts school. Schools can change a lot in 5 years.

Ask again in 4 years time when you've had a child and got to know them, and other children.

Current views are not going to help. By the time you have produced your sprig and raised him or her to the appropriate age, the culture in any school you consider now may well have changed.

@madamreign depends on what you mean by the world.

Schools can teach you plenty about history, about the natural sciences, about global affairs, about society, economy, government, and the law. All of this is relevant for corporate success, but one can equally pursue passions in this area to succeed in professions outside private corporations.

Of course plenty is also learnt from interactions with friends and from playing in the mud. I do not deny that. I did plenty of that in my own childhood. But again, these things do not need to be mutually exclusive. There's plenty of time to do all of these things.

I've got 3 DCs. One off to a v good RG uni this week to study a Humanities. His sister is on track for a good RG uni to study engineering. Both product of same state school. Their younger sibling will be lucky to make it to 16 without being arrested/gain enough GCSEs to stay on for sixth form, at a different school.

Just cos you're going for these things now doesn't mean you'll need them. And what works for one might not work for another. So I'd suggest moving to an area with choices, so you can be responsive to your children's needs. And, controversially, look at the early years childcare. Mine went to an expensive but outstanding setting (was paying over £2k a month for 2DCs for 4 days 16+ years ago) and the strong foundations this built have benefited them hugely. It's too early to move for a particular school if you're not even pregnant but early years do have long waiting lists

The absolute best preparation you can do for parenthood is to learn to relax, go with the flow and not have such rigid ideals. And to recognise you'll be raising a child, not a project. Whatever ideals and plans you have now, will be thrown out of the window once the child has actually been born.

Most kids come out of most schools with sufficient outcomes to enable them to progress to the next stage of their lives. You don't need to specifically plan for that to happen.

Are you for real? I actually don't have any words for this naive level of pre-planning.. so I'm sorry, I guess I shouldn't even comment. But as one pp said, pls chill, relax.. enjoy the child rather than project manage them before they even exist.

You can still do all of this and your kid will come home from school asking for you to buy Prime, watch shite on TikTok and drop language that makes you wince.

You can still look for all of this and your kid is ND.

You can still look for all of this, and have days (weeks?) when as long as your kid comes back from school upright and having eaten something you'll consider it good enough because work/family/real life has gotten in the way.

You can still do all of this, have a kid that aces school, gets into top Uni for super competitive subject, and then gets to 30 and thinks WTF? (I'm an academic and I see a lot of our junior doctors realising it's a shit deal)

In the nicest possible way, unclench a bit and you'll be fine. Your future kid already has a head start with parents who care about this kind of stuff, but you need to make sure their entire self worth isn't tied up in jumping through your academic hoops.

I agree.

My kids are in a high performing (in terms of exam results) state school, so maybe a higher chance than some of conforming to your ideals, and it absolutely doesn't. It's a great school that does nurture and encourage the kids, but it has a lot of kids in it, and not all of them come from homes that really value education or provide a cosy safe environment for them. Because a non-selective state school will take anyone in catchment, and they will not all share your ideals or values.

I'm not sure you'd find a state school anywhere that would match - maybe a selective one (grammar?) with a very small catchment area?

@hermani The national curriculum doesn’t cover government, the economy, law or global affairs. Reading a newspaper is better. You need to look at the core subjects and go from there.

I changed my mind about schools. I thought state and then did private for secondary. That’s because of DC and who they were! So what you need to do is look at areas with options. South Hertfordshire has a good mix. State and private. South Bucks has grammars. All quite close to London.

You do not know at any school how DC will behave. Possibly less disruption at private schools and you certainly can get good results in a decent caring environment. For now I would go to an area with a choice of prep schools and take it from there. They then advise where you might go next for secondary. London is ultra competitive. Just outside London it’s more normal!

@hermani also bear in mind that by the time they reach university (if uni is the best option for that individual child) then they all pretty much end up at the same universities anyway, irrespective of which school they went to (apart from a few obvious exceptions).
You have a lot of steps to go through before your potential child is school so honestly just chill out. The more pressure you put on kids the more they usually do the complete opposite so you could end up with a skilled tradesperson as a child and you will be happy for them because they have found a vocation to suit their skill set. It is so much more important that a child is truly happy in life.

😂😂😂😂
It's great to expect lots but what are you willing to do OP from your end to inculcate those expected values in your DC?

Also I think this is a troll post

Yea erm.

Alot happens in 5 years OP.

You really, really don't need to be thinking this deeply about it. Not yet anyway.

I'd start with highly selective private schools. This might help although a year out of date and things do change.
https://www.tatler.com/article/top-london-prep-schools

@hermani

I find these two statements contradictory

We are now in the process of identifying schools that reach these ideals. However, we do not know where to start. Would appreciate any recommendations of schools that you think would be a good fit or advice on how to find such schools.

and

Re the list of wants, do you think what we are looking for is extraordinary? We thought this would be a pretty standard set of things to look for.

If you think it is a standard list of wants then why do you need a list of such schools?

I agree with many other posters you are better looking at private but even then not all parents will reach the level of perfection you aspire to.

You don't want neutering