STEINER WALDORF SCHOOLS AND INSTITUTIONS

[theantignome]

hi everyone, i wanted to start a new thread with a NEW topic heading here, as the active one at the moment with over 700 posts looks like it is all about the Cambridge school. This may confuse newcomers.

Let's continue the debate here !
All newcomers welcome !

I will shortly link our two previous threads on MN for any one new to have a look at.

Davy, could you also give a link to your new yahoo list here please ? Thanks.

Zooey:

"Yes, apparently, Sune, what happened was that you contacted the admins of TES and threatened them with libel suits, exactly as you did with me. This because I quoted a legitimate passage from an online periodical, communalism. It was Peter Staudenmaier's article, you know. I can quote that passage again here, if you'd like."

He's desperate and out of ideas, you see, because he's been at this for years, threatening people who criticize Steiner that they'll be sued for libel etc. We mainly laugh and say Oh really? and proceed to post it again, or post more of the same. This can't be easy to take.

Thanks Diana

It's the fact he even mentioned not trying to find out where I lived as if it's on his mind!

I wondered if I had missed that. Why on earth would he say he's "not trying to find out where you live"? Why they hell WOULD he try to find out where you live?

In one discussion, xxxxx/Northernrefugee39 has stated that I have tried to find out where her children go to school. That is not the case. My use of "live" was a simplification of "school", as that normally refers to the same city or village.

You guys are paranoid.

Thbee- where did i say that?
Provide the quote, or don't post.

I think you'll find I said I supposed thatt's what you're trying to do.

Post the quote, or retract what you've out.

You are treading extremely dangerous ground at the moment, so I would tread carefully.

You really have little grasp of english don't you?
How on earth can "live" translate as "school"?

Simplified?

"My use of "live" was a simplification of "school", as that normally refers to the same city or village." WHAT?

No- sune- it doesn't normally translate like that.

You're trying to dig yourself out of a hole.

Post the quote where i said that sune.

I know sources of quotes aren't your strong point, but I hope you're flutering around trying to find this one.

As "leweekend" om Green Parent:

"He gave out my name, and is trying to find out which school my kids went to."

Maybe we could give him the benefit of the doubt, that in Sweden where one lives is always where one goes to school ...? But I doubt it. Here, that would be very far from the case and no one would say "where I live" when they mean "where I go to school." Many people live one place and go to school somewhere else. My son takes three buses and more than an hour each way to get to school. It is nowhere near where he lives, and while I would feel very concerned if somebody suddenly said "I know where your child goes to school" - it's a big place, and it has a lot of security - it would be even more alarming if they said, "I know where you live." Especially when there are small children involved, it is very threatening and highly inappropriate to suggest "I know where you live" in online discussions.

It isn't unusual for the anthro-defenders to try to determine what school is being discussed by critics, so that they can notify the school. It's an attempt to help the school do PR damage control. While it's inappropriate and clearly intrusive, I've never thought it indicated any kind of threat to the children - other than what northern is clearly trying to avoid - her own children being ostracized or shunned by former friends and classmates: as if that's not bad enough for young children.

But saying "I'm not trying to find out where you live" - when no one suggested you were - is really seriously putting your foot in it, dude. Is "freudian slip" an English expression you are familiar with Sune?

You're right to doubt it Diana, because it's quite common to not go to school where you live, at least in city areas like Stockholm.

Most of my school years, and kindergarten years, I did not live where I went to school. In addition, there are more than one waldorf school to choose from.

I have no idea who said what, and if Sune explicitly tried to find out what school it was about (though I don't doubt he may have tried - at least implicitly) - following people around and tracking their activity he clearly does. For some reason it seems important that someone has commented on my blog. I don't see why that would matter - but apparently it does.

Reminds of the DD story of the doll in a box "covered with 6-cent stamps", typical of the witch hunt and paranoia campaign against Waldorf schools cultivated on the WC-list and -site since some 10 years.

For the record, I do not think he is a dangerous man in any way. (So don't bother imagining I'm going to be frightened if you say I'm "libeling" you now Sune.) I think he is clueless to an astounding degree about the real world, as a result of immersion in a cult for most of his life, and has no idea how his behavior here appears to normal mothers who are concerned for their children. Normal mothers react INSTANTLY to any suggestion someone they don't know has taken an interest in their children or their children's lives. Online we assume a degree of safety in the simple fact that unless we tell them, nobody we're talking to knows who or where we are, so even if someone nutty is reading it, they're probably a thousand miles away and we won't meet them in real life. That makes most mothers, I think, feel it is all right to take the support of other mums in saying "This happened to my children" in mothering discussion groups. But the minute someone antagonistic suggests "I know who or where you are," there is no doubt this is perceived as threatening, and when young children are involved, you have people like the mums here who already had their backs up because bad things happened to their children, suddenly people are seriously worried.

Sune, it's like you antagonized a mother bear. She was already in protective mode for her children, and you've taunted her. What do you think you're going to get back?

This is a totally different situation than Sune's (foiled) attempts at anonymity here, which is not designed to protect himself or family members but to make information that he is providing appear independent and objective when it is not - referring people to his own web sites without taking responsiblity for the content, posing as a "mum" when in fact he is a childless man, disguising his motives for posting here and attempting to mislead people about the factualness of information he posts, or the fact that he is a spokesperson for a cause.

That's what I think - his behavior is neurotic and highly inappropriate but he's not a threat to anything (except logic and sanity). He needs to realize that what looks normal to him doesn't look normal to ordinary people with ordinary lives.

Hey bee - did you read Mum in Scotland's post categorizing all the strategies you have used in this debate so far?

Can't you learn to recognize the ones that are not going to work? More off-topic stories are not going to work.

Damn though, that was a great opportunity to review that bizarre little story.

In my take, if the doll was sent back in a package covered with six-cent stamps, it was probably not satanic (reference to 666), though you can understand why parents who were already enraged because their child had been mistreated, were nervous and perhaps paranoid at that point.

It is more likely that the Waldorf teacher, being somewhat impaired as many of them are at dealing with the real world, hadn't made a trip to the post office in awhile and had to scrounge for stamps. It sounds like the last time she bought stamps was about 1950. I'm not sure what year that story was, but it's been decades since six cent stamps would be a reasonable way to mail any package anyhwere to anyone, it was definitely an odd little thing to do.

But I definitely don't blame the parents for wondering if it had a "meaning." They'd probably just found out that everything from the lightbulbs to the kitchen sink has a "meaning" to nutty Waldorf teachers. If you're going to mess around in an occult religion, and keep it as secret as possible from the parents in your class, then when people leave because you were incompetent or mean to their children, yeah, they're worried about occult symbols in packages you send, especially when the means of mailing the package is so bizarre. (It's really not a typical thing to do, to mail a package with entirely six-cent stamps. You'd need, let's see, what's a postcard cost these days? It would take dozens to mail any size package at all and these days, such a package in the US would probably attract the attention of Homeland Security.)

Sune- what makes you think that I am Leweekend on the green parenting forum? I have never used my name there.You are guessing- you don't know that's me for sure do you?
Do you sune? How do you know that that is me? By stalking me? By making notes about which sites I've been to?
Are you exhibiting normal behaviour do you think?

And for anyone interested- the Green parenting forum discussion, which the anthroposohists are so afraid of they must have threatened some sort of action, has had 935 views- it's up there now
www.thegreenparent.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1086.0

What the anthroposophists find threatening I don't know- it caused much interest as can be seen, more than they' had for a very long time.
There is nothing inflammatory there- just mother's comparing notes.
And they are so scared- they're trying to get it deleted.
What are you trying to hide?

Diana- thankyou for your post- it's exactly right.

Sune isn't a threat.
He's a desperate man trying to save his cult.

I don't like the idea of a 60 yr old man with no kids saying he's not really trying to find out where I live- it does make me feel uncomfortable that it's even crossd his mind actually.

Hey bee. Do you want to provide the link to the actual discussion you are referencing? as usual, I've clicked your links, and I find your highly distorted "summary" of the incident on your own web site, but no link to the original discussion. A bit of a pattern you have - an ironic one considering your attempt to derail Peter Staudenmaier's career claiming he's not a "scholar."

Let's find out if you are really interested in discussing what happened there. I've just rummaged around in the critics archives and a search of the word "voodoo" does not turn up the thing you have in quotes connected to Debra Snell's name. I think they're "scare" quotes - they're your misleading characterization of whatever it was that Debra originally said - and, more importantly, what she said it in reference to - another parent who had just told of very disturbing experiences their child had undergone in a Steiner school.

Let's see it Sune - post it here. I'll even give you a break from reminding you about the approximately 30 other unsourced quotes from celebrities on your web site(s) that you're obviously having a little difficulty tracing for us so we can find out if they are bogus or not.

Post a link to what the parent who told the story about the six-cent stamp package actually told the critics list about her child's experience in a Steiner school, and let the mums on mumsnet see the real story.

I dare you. Not your web site - the mum's own words; the critics' response; the context in which the parent received a bizarre package in the mail from the school. That's the end of the story luv, not the beginning.

A quick tip: I've got to run but I'll post it later if you don't. Here's your chance!!

OOh yes- lets "do a Lush"
Full quotes Sune

"It would take dozens to mail any size package at all and these days, such a package in the US would probably attract the attention of Homeland Security."

When I was young and (more) foolish (than now) I used to buy lots of minor-value stamps and cover the whole envelopes of letters I sent. It really seems nuts, but I took a lot of artistic pride in this endevour

"he's not a threat to anything (except logic and sanity)"

...and that's bad enough!

Diana:

"He needs to realize that what looks normal to him doesn't look normal to ordinary people with ordinary lives."

You mean like the ordinary male waldorf parent and fervent waldorf critic with a normal life, that you supported for seven months on WP, until he was banned indefinitely from editing any waldorf related article for his behaviour, who at one time told that he suspected that I would contact someone at his children's school, to ask them to beat him up, and who told that he thought that I would have to change my pants if I met him in person?

Changing the subject is not going to do you any good in this case LOL!

You threatened to punch him! And if you don't admit it I will later find the link that proves it. (I'm supposed to be working over here).

You made a physical threat against him. You probably didn't mean it, I know you are really a big baby and it was safe to say "I'd like to punch you" to somebody thousands of miles away, but it's another perfect example of how you don't realize how the real world works, and think you are special and other people should always excuse your inappropriate behavior because you are sensitive and spiritual or something.

You know I am right. Either you retract it or I will post the link. Your choice.

But meanwhile the full links to the six-cent stamps discussion please? You're getting yourself into a lot of things you can't follow up on over here aren't you?

I looked in critics archives. I find that Debra Snell was apparently personally familiar with the incident of the doll mailed in the strange package, she reported that the police had been called and that she personally believed the six-cent stamp thing was "no accident." I think there's always room for paranoia on both sides, but I do trust Debra's take on situations she's been personally involved in - she is a person who has been around the block a few times, she has experience with more than one Waldorf school, and she is a tough person who can handle tough people. She's not easy to scare. She's personally had death threats from Waldorf supporters. (She's the president of PLANS, the organization behind the litigation against the school districts in California running public waldorf charters.) If Debra thought this family had reason to be concerned, my take is that maybe they really did.

I think that mums here can put themselves in that family's shoes, and would understand feeling "better safe than sorry" in such a situation. We don't know exactly what had happened to this child.

But anyway - do you want me to prove that you threatened to punch Pete or do you want to take back your mischaracterization of that episode too. Your choice.

Sune threatened to punch someone?

Really?

And you are stalking me around the net/
Talking about people's maiden names , where they post, trying to find out he other names they use?

Good heavens- you are crazy aren't you?

Sune- why would you guess that leweekend is me, if you weren't following and stalking?

Clairvoyance?