Number of children with additional needs in son’s class

[Sazzle12345]

DS is starting school in September. He is going to a lovely local CofE primary and has a number of friends from pre school in his class. It is a 30 child per year intake.

I have zero experience of teaching and am hoping that someone can put my mind at rest.

I know approx half of the class, and of those that I know 4 have additional needs - likely ADHD / autism (but too young for formal diagnosis). I know 2 of the children very well and their parents are of the view that their children won’t be able to remain in the class for long periods and will need one to one support. Both of them struggle with aggression when in large groups.

Whilst not wishing to sound in any way insensitive to the needs of those children (I appreciate life must be very tough at times for them and their parents), my concern is for my DS.

The class has one teacher and one TA. I don’t understand how the rest of the class will be able to be cared for, let alone given any sort of teaching when at any one time there are likely to be at least 2 children that need to be outside the room and others who will need extra hand holding beyond what is normal in a reception class.

Am I worrying unnecessarily? Do teachers have super powers that I am oblivious to? Or is this sort of number of children with additional needs the norm in a class of 30?

I have tried to phrase this sensitively as I genuinely do not wish to be in any way rude or insensitive to any SEN children or their parents.

It was absolutely the kids with SEN who took over

Selfish bastards eh?

Jesus fucking wept.

Like I SAID, there are no winners here @Vinvertebrate but let’s all just forget about the other NT kids needs hey in the name of wokeness. Lucky bastards themselves aren’t they??

Please tell me you're on a wind up and you don't actually have any contact DC? Do you describe all protected characteristics as 'wokeness'? Maybe we should go the whole hog and segregate on race? Or just teach boys, don't want the girls distracting them. Yes sen kids are being let down, but it's not their bloody fault!

Here we go the hysterics….. for simply pointing out the obvious. That NT kids were also getting no support because the one and only TA in reception had her time eaten up by those with SEN. Usually, you would have expected 1 or 2 in the class with SEN, and there would still be time and resources left over to help other kids.

Well not so anymore. Not with the sheer numbers.

Like I said, no winners here. But yeah, please stop with the dramatics.

My DS' reception teacher was like you. She refused to accept DS, or any other kids in her class were anything but disruptive and naughty. Refused to make adjustments. My DS went from being a happy child, to a nervous wreck. He has multiple exclusions in reception, as did many others in his class. It was heartbreaking. My DS moved to a different school for year 1, he is now in a small class but with multiple sen DC. His teacher pushes for help for all the DC, and makes adjustments. The headteacher believes behaviour is communication and whilst everyone accepts the government are letting disabled DC down, DC in her class are all happy and excelling. Maybe try thinking outside the box, drop the disablist attitude and take some responsibility for the DC YOU teacher not getting the education they deserve.

Disabled children's rights are defined in law. They are their civil rights. They exist in recognition of how marginalised the lives of disabled people can be unless special measures are taken to include and meet their needs. To give one example, fewer than 3 in 10 autistic working age adults are currently employed. Think about the differences in life chances that creates for disbled and non-disabled children in your classroom.

Improving educational outcomes by making education more inclusive of disabled learners is a key means of improving the life chances of disabled people.

Teaching staff who do not respect the rights of disabled children or the laws of the land - problematic.

In the real world though inclusion doesn’t work irrespective of your ‘laws of the land’.

Never in a million years will schools be inclusive without adequate staffing, therefore all children suffer. I mean I did say there are NO winners. I am allowed to feel sorry for NT kids who just need a little help and guidance but don’t get it due to the sheer amount of needs currently presenting in new reception intakes.

I won’t apologise for that and parents of NT kids are right to be concerned.

Disabled children's rights are defined in law. They are their civil rights. They exist in recognition of how marginalised the lives of disabled people can be unless special measures are taken to include and meet their needs

👏 👏 👏

@MissPop I wouldn't normally do this but I admit I did think surely this person isn't really a teacher. It seems you are. Your comments on another thread

'Their better behaved because they most probably have engaged parents who implement boundaries. We are a bunch of wet farts in England who can’t reflect on our own parenting or lack thereof. Everything and I mean everything is put down to neurodiversity, in anyway shape or form. Oh, or mental health.

God forbid anyone take any responsibility'

Everyone agrees the current situation isn't good. But going into the classroom with that attitude is going to cause chaos for all.

If you say so.

In our experience teachers do seem to work wonders, and to be honest if you have a child who is NT and with no SEN they will probably be fine.

What is a problem is if you have a SEN and ND child who needs extra help but they are not disruptive and are doing better than a lot of the other SEN kids.

Despite our DD having specifics outlined on her EP reports such as being sat at the front of the class etc, it was never possible because a quarter of the class had the same so they prioritised the children with more severe needs.

The solution to protecting the NT kids is to give the SEN kids support. NT kids don't need support in any way near the same way. They just need teachers to teach. If there are family problems then why is that for teachers and not specialist services.

The point for me is that teachers can't teach because SEN kids have unmet needs. And the problem isn't inclusion. The problem is lack of funding to enable inclusion without disruption. Unmet needs is where things go downhill.

Unmet needs are often because of the length of time it takes to get a diagnosis. Schools can't even afford to refer everyone who needs referring. The situation in DSs school is they can only refer so many kids per year for free. After that they have to pay from over stretched budgets for every additional referral.

The budgets aren't allowing every kid who needs support to even be referred.

Once a referral is delayed (for what ever reason) problems can spiral.

That's not about inclusion. That's about an inadequate system which isn't fit for purpose in terms of identifying problems promptly and then acting quickly to stop them getting out of control in the first place.

Saying the kids shouldnt be included because of the effect on the rest of the class massively misses the point. It's not the kids fault NOR is it their disability that's the issue. If it gets to that point they've been massively failed.

It is hard to say anything without seeming insensitive or being branded discriminatory. Those labels should be abandoned if we are to have a proper discussion about how education is delivered in the best interests of all. In my case, my heart is absolutely breaking everyday for my lovely, kind and gifted daughter who is struggling with the egregious behaviour of kids with extreme behaviour issues and some SEN children too. She was so excited for school but now really struggles with the impact of daily violence within the classroom and directed at her by these children. She has come home with so many injuries, never mind the effect on her health and wellbeing. She reports things like one child throwing scissors - several pairs - at kids who were sitting for carpet time. He was put in reflection but nothing has changed. And she is, like another commenter kids, expected to be able to manage this because she is 'able' and to take life lessons from what any given adult would struggle with. That is too.much for her little four year old self to have to manage. Never.mind the diminished education as a result. To try to manage the behaviour, they have reduced phonics time to allow the children to move around more freely for longer. So it is having a direct impact on her welfare and her education. How is this fair? How is this in everyone's best interest? There are three extra TAs this year compared to typical years and yet they still cannot manage it.

@MissPop has a point I am afraid.

Hi everyone I’m new to this chat. My daughter has a diagnosis of autism and adhd. We’ve recently put in for a ehcp as the school wouldn’t back us on it. She’s fell behind on 5 subjects. Is it true they only allow 6 children per class for ehcp plans? We are having mediation in February…: the school are saying they can meet her needs but we don’t agree

20-25% SEN is normal. The way it is now is that parents have to plug the gaps at home with 1:1 for their own children if they are not SEN as well. Good teachers communicate accordingly and parents support learning at home. SEN children in school if not too severe will be handled with intervention groups and a TA for several. Severe diagnosed SEN e.g. non verbal autistic child should get their own TA. Parents need to push very hard to get that in place as soon as possible. That is where the bottleneck is.
Some research years ago suggested most SEN children are better off in their local school especially at primary level.
The advantage of less attention for the rest of the class is independence skills. Or so they say. A good teacher will tell you what your DC needs to work on. Listen very carefully and support, support, support their learning and other issues. We cannot change the current set up, all we can do is support our own DC and give them the attention at home to make up for the current set up.

No such blanket law exists.

@Holllymum you've replied to a long thread that was opened some months ago. I would suggest you start your own thread instead, and you might get more replies.