Number of children with additional needs in son’s class

[Sazzle12345]

DS is starting school in September. He is going to a lovely local CofE primary and has a number of friends from pre school in his class. It is a 30 child per year intake.

I have zero experience of teaching and am hoping that someone can put my mind at rest.

I know approx half of the class, and of those that I know 4 have additional needs - likely ADHD / autism (but too young for formal diagnosis). I know 2 of the children very well and their parents are of the view that their children won’t be able to remain in the class for long periods and will need one to one support. Both of them struggle with aggression when in large groups.

Whilst not wishing to sound in any way insensitive to the needs of those children (I appreciate life must be very tough at times for them and their parents), my concern is for my DS.

The class has one teacher and one TA. I don’t understand how the rest of the class will be able to be cared for, let alone given any sort of teaching when at any one time there are likely to be at least 2 children that need to be outside the room and others who will need extra hand holding beyond what is normal in a reception class.

Am I worrying unnecessarily? Do teachers have super powers that I am oblivious to? Or is this sort of number of children with additional needs the norm in a class of 30?

I have tried to phrase this sensitively as I genuinely do not wish to be in any way rude or insensitive to any SEN children or their parents.

I am also unable to find a suitable school.

So I have an “academically capable” autistic primary child in funded small group bespoke provision (as the stress of mainstream caused her to become severely and dramatically mentally unwell) but had to fight so so hard for this because of the local authority policy that mainstream is the best place for all children…

We has to go through three failed reintegration timetables, and provide medical evidence of harm caused, before they would fund alternative provision.

But the LA have offered him another provision unless I misunderstood your previous post?

yes. A school where 0% of pupils are meeting milestones in English and maths. For a gifted kid. Sorry, but the LA can get to fuck.

In my experience of this (as a parent not a teacher), the more experienced and capable teachers left the school fairly shortly after being assigned the more challenging class.

Can you go for EOTAS?

Sadly not compatible with our lives and other caring responsibilities @MorningShow

If it makes you feel any better OP I was in both a (tiny) primary and a big secondary with loads of kids with additional needs. Yes they needed some extra support but I never felt like the support wasn't there for me. I've done pretty well so I'm sure your son will too!

ADHD/autism doesn't always mean disruptive. You say about the two that have what could be challenging behaviour - this could happen with a child without SEN too.

My DC had a wide range of kids - each with a child with significant needs....being around those children was, in my opinion so valuable. Made them realise that not everyone is the same and their acceptance of it/empathy was good to see.

As for the kids that were disruptive - I have no idea if there was SEN, my DC learned to give them a wide berth and issues were dealt with swiftly.

Behaviours of concern/challenging behaviour to the degree that it impacts on the rest of the class is an SEN in and of itself.

Exactly, posters would be happy to let children get 0 GCSEs and never get a job as long as their precious darling doesn't drop a grade.

Maybe part of the answer is to offer funding more regularly for SEN kids to attend private school (if appropriate). NT kids don't have to deal with anyone different to them and the kids with SEN get the small environment they need. This is already partially in place for some kids from troubled homes.

This already happens but won't find many non specialist private schools wanting to deal with disruptive behaviour, no matter how gifted a child is.

Being NT around a minority of dc with SEN is much easier than the other way round.

In fact, it is good practise for real life, where we encounter people who need more support than we do.

My well behaved, intelligent ds15 had been educated among children with SEN and have 2 brothers who also have SEN.

He is a lovely boy who is doing well academically and socially.

School is a rehearsal for life. Let your ds find his own way. He'll cope.

Putting a child without learning difficulties in a school for children with learning difficulties isn't appropriate.
You wouldn't accept it for your child, so why would it be ok for another child?

Children with disabilities and SEN are no less worthy of or entitled to an education than any other child.
Don't frame it as 'these disruptive SEN children' ruining your child's education - they and their parents have NO say in education funding, resources and policy.

Agree - this thread is awful.

The idea that NT dc are disadvantaged by SEN dc getting support is just wrong.

And the one's who moved their dc to private school to avoid SEN kids is really sad and the reason why private schools discriminate against dc with SEN.

What will happen to all these precious snowflakes who can't cope with adults with disabilities once they grow up?

Indeed although this went on for a full term and the teacher actually suggested we complain to help move things along so that's a lot of learning time lost before a new strategy was implemented.

As an adult you wouldn't be expected to work alongside someone who was violent or whose conduct prevented you from doing your job, no matter what needs they had. Why should it be different for children?

In fairness, my DC was awful at mainstream, I went once and a poor TA had locked herself in a cupboard to stop him from attacking her.
Youre 100% right in what you say though.
It's why I had to give up my job, it wasn't a career, just a NMW care work Job, but it wasn't the 75 quid a week I get now. But the little lad just attacks others once he's reached a point. Luckily at his SEN school (touch wood) he's never been so distressed he's meltdown.

The senco in mainstream and I became friends and she told me that a severely disabled child (no movement besides head, feeding tube, non verbal) was expected to attend the school whilst they did this DC EHCP. Imagine how devasted that kiddos parents would be? It was bad enough seeing all the kids shit scared of my DC. Really was an awful experience for my DC but the other 20 kids he was traumatising with his meltdowns.

And NT children are not disadvantaged by SEN children getting support, no one is saying that. People are pointing out that in some cases where children with additional needs are not having those needs met it can have a significant impact on the rest of the class.

You still may not want EOTAS, and that is absolutely fine and obviously your choice. However, if you don’t want EOTAS because e.g. you work or care and can’t be around to facilitate/organise EOTAS provision it is worth knowing the LA can’t compel parents to organise, facilitate or deliver provision. Even if that means the LA have to fund additional provision in order to provide this - the LA won’t tell you this though.

Of course - the child with unmet needs gets the worst of it but it effects all the children. So we should all be on the same side, not complaining about the children with SEN existing.

I can't see a single post complaining about children with SEN existing

My 5 year old is one of the ‘disruptive’ SEN children. He goes to school for 3.5 hours a day. Is in the class for 30 mins a day and otherwise is on his own outside the class, he has lunch on his own in a classroom and plays on his own in the other playground after lunch before I pick him up. He has an EHCP and he needs specialist, I know that, school know that, the professional reports know that. The only people who deny it are the LA.

So, despite the fact he has sky high anxiety around school, says he’s a bad boy who deserves to die and is a sad and lonely little boy who isn’t part of the community, I send him in, every day. It’s the only way the LA will eventually listen, but it has ruined our lives. I’ve had to give up work, we have no friends and even my father (in the loosest sense of the term) doesn’t want to know him because of his needs.

It is soul-destroying to be in this position and words don’t do the harm it’s caused justice. But the people to hold responsible for this are the local authorities, not the school, not the parents and least of all the children. All the children suffer for my DS being in mainstream, not least of all him, but we have no choice and no other options.

To clarify, I don't have an issue with SEN children existing and I'm not thinking about moving my kids to private so they don't have to mix with other kids. What I have an issue with is my DD spending half a day in a dining hall while a child attacks her teacher because there is no support available for that child. In this instance I'm referring to a child with extremely violent behaviour which I know not all SEN children have. No one wins.

I can't see a single post complaining about children with SEN existing

Aren't you the poster who implied that my gifted son should go to a school with children who can’t read so he doesn’t disrupt the NT pupils?

How about this? “There are loads of children with English as a second language in my precious DC’s class. I’m concerned DC may not get enough attention because the children will take up too much of the teacher’s time. I’m definitely not a racist though…” 🙄

It isn’t any sort of “ist” to worry that your own child will miss out because a disproportionate amount of teacher time is spent elsewhere, for whatever reason.

Additional needs should bring additional support, not one teacher running around like a blue arsed fly trying to do everything themselves.

And people then wonder why teachers quit when they can’t manage it.