Number of children with additional needs in son’s class

[Sazzle12345]

DS is starting school in September. He is going to a lovely local CofE primary and has a number of friends from pre school in his class. It is a 30 child per year intake.

I have zero experience of teaching and am hoping that someone can put my mind at rest.

I know approx half of the class, and of those that I know 4 have additional needs - likely ADHD / autism (but too young for formal diagnosis). I know 2 of the children very well and their parents are of the view that their children won’t be able to remain in the class for long periods and will need one to one support. Both of them struggle with aggression when in large groups.

Whilst not wishing to sound in any way insensitive to the needs of those children (I appreciate life must be very tough at times for them and their parents), my concern is for my DS.

The class has one teacher and one TA. I don’t understand how the rest of the class will be able to be cared for, let alone given any sort of teaching when at any one time there are likely to be at least 2 children that need to be outside the room and others who will need extra hand holding beyond what is normal in a reception class.

Am I worrying unnecessarily? Do teachers have super powers that I am oblivious to? Or is this sort of number of children with additional needs the norm in a class of 30?

I have tried to phrase this sensitively as I genuinely do not wish to be in any way rude or insensitive to any SEN children or their parents.

@Sazzle12345 Hi op my daughter's class of 35 has ,5 children who are SEN . Most schools normally will have an extra TA who can take these children out of the class if need be , it won't be the teacher that does this so I don't think you need to worry about his learning . Alot of classes now have children who need extra support and it doesn't cause problems for the other kids .

Teachers definitely do seem to have superpowers here, they have ways of getting a class under control in ways parents can only dream of and these skills extend into enabling children whose parents are sure they won’t stay in the classroom to do so and reduce certain behaviours parents just have no joy trying to stop.

I honestly expect that isn’t out of the ordinary for children with SEND in a class, but I’d always be slightly dubious believing parents about potential SEND at this early age too.

I know people tiptoe around this, but I get your concern. High numbers of children with SEND in a class inevitably mean other children in the class miss out on attention until any 1-1/additional TAs are in place.

There’s very little you can do about this so you just need to see how it goes.

It is a difficult one, and I've been the parent on both sides! All children should be fully supported to their needs at an appropriate setting but the reality is EHCPs and places at specialist schools aren't always easy to come by. Often there needs to be evidence that the child can't manage at mainstream with the level of support they can offer. Specialist schools aren't always the best place for all children with SEN, outcomes are often lower and some manage well with support in mainstream. They're able to be educated in the own town and be part of their own community. Children are often having to travel miles to their local specialist school.
From the other side, there are some children who would be better able to access their education in a specialist school and it's not fair for the other children in the class to have their education and school experience impacted by the needs of children who aren't able to get the support they desperately need because of budget cuts and funding. I'd advise the parents to get familiar with their rights around EHCPs and education for their child. I'd advise you to be the voice for your child if they are impacted by the unmet needs of others.

If only this were true. Disastrous funding cuts and lack of SEN provision nationally means that it is likely that these children will not be able to access the support they require. This will have significant ripple effect on staff and the other pupils. It is not at all uncommon for a class to be very negatively impacted by the fact that their are children with unmet needs in the class and particularly where the needs manifest behaviourally this can be hugely disruptive. Schools are trying their best in most cases but the resources needed are not available. Add to that a massive staffing shortage and recruitment crisis, not to mention a minority of parents of children with severe and complex who insist upon mainstream provision even when it is wholly inappropriate and you have got a perfect storm.

Teachers don't have super powers (although we demand they do), education is hugely underfunded and there isn't enough qualified staff to support children with SEN.

All children are suffering in the education system at the moment, children with SEN & disabilities are taking the brunt of it.

Unfortunately it is the norm now though and one of the reasons so many teachers are quitting and there is a recruitment crisis.

Sorry to add to misery but my experience (20 years ago when things were slightly less awful) was that my "well behaved" children were used to manage and support the medium-badly behaved/ or SEND children. As my DTs were quiet and studious they always seemed to be sat next to, paired up with, a more difficult child. It made me proud and cross! (My wonderful small children gave me merry hell as teenagers so I'm not as smug as some May chose to think)

There will be children with SEND in each class.

Up to 6 is fairly normal but thats quite a range of needs so not all would have behaviour difficulties or be challenging.

Increasingly very high needs children are in msinstream though.

It is challenging for schools to manage and they vary a lot in their ability to do so.

It’s not so different to our system where kids start with a huge difference in age range. A reception year where I am, would range from 4y5mo to 6y2mo. Obviously a typical 4 and a half year old behaviour and capabilities are very different to a typical 6 year old, yet one teacher needs to manage every child in the class in terms of behaviour and educational progression (no TA as standard in our classes). Then throw SEN in on top. Things may not be perfect but they seem to manage.

Unfortunately all children suffer in current set up. There isn't enough funding, or staff. It let's everyone down and it's appalling. One of the many reasons teachers are leaving. School system is a shamble and needs a complete shake up.
Unless you want to home educate or explore private schools (depending on the school, some may have more support for SEN kids or just not accept them if needs too high), then there isn't really much you can do. It's likely to be the same in other schools.
It's appalling. But I don't think it'll change until schools literally can't open classes/ years/ entire school because of no staff. Suspect we're not far from it.

My daughter (P1-Scotland) has just one SEN kid in her class out of a class of 25, diagnosed anyway, and it got to the point last year that the class were being evacuated up to 3 times a day while he kicked, bit and abused the teacher who had to deal with him while the other 23 kids were taken to the dining hall. My daughter would get terribly upset watching this and a few of us parents had to politely suggest to the school that 1 child can't hold the rest to ransom. Now the child has 1 to 1 teaching out of the classroom so it is being dealt with but my son in P4 also has disruptive kids so it feels a little endemic in their 'good' state school. Despite it being a huge stretch I'm actually considering private education.

It’s normal for around a sixth of a class to have sen although what that sen is and how it impacts will massively vary.

This is the only reason why we have chosen to send our DD's private.

I really struggle with the inequality that private school offers, but I really hate the idea of my quite, passive DD's to be overlooked.

In your shoes I wouldn't worry about anything that potentially could or cold not happen.

But I would listen to DS very carefully once he's started school. Evaluate and raise any concerns that you have about the welfare of your DC should they arise.

I say this as a parent who's children did suffer from having children with additional needs in their classroom.

MN likes to say it's a funding issue and the education system authority is failing these children.

What nobody wants to adress is that the other 25-29 children are also failed by the system.

3 2 1 when will my post be deleted??

All children are being failed @Ylvamoon why try to pit children with additional needs against everyone else as if they are the enemy?
You're aiming at those least able to defend themselves, and least able to change the system.

Exactly this. I wish I could tell you that there will be the staff to support children that need 1:1 help but it’s so underfunded.

There is one child in my child’s year one class with significant additional needs - to the point of the class being regularly evacuated due to violence. Horrific situation for the child and their family, as well as the school. But of course as parents our concern and focus is our own child and my child’s education has undoubtedly been affected. And that’s just one child with additional needs, not several. We are also considering private earlier than planned because I honestly don’t want my son missing maths and phonics teaching in order to go and hide in the hall while teachers try and talk this poor child down off a windowsill.

However, without wanting to use this child’s struggles as a ‘learning moment’ I’ve been hugely impressed by the other children’s kindness and acceptance of their friend’s struggles and it’s made me realise that children need to know that not everyone finds the world easy to navigate. BUT, to what extent do I let my child’s education suffer for that lesson? Never mind the physical safety - a few children have been hit and that’s simply not ok.

I don’t know what the answer is, shit situation all round really.

What about longer term outcomes, how do these children compare academically to others their age?

We have this issue too. We've stuck at it for 4 years. But now they're getting older the violence is getting scarier. Evacuating a class = less learning. Repeat several times a day

We've put DC on a waiting list for a better school

With respect op and as the mother of a severely autistic child who cannot get a specialist school place... did you not ask these questions when touring school?
One of the first things I asked was the % of sen. In my sons soon to be mainstream its around 35% of the entire school. If I had a neurotypical I would still think to ask these questions and how sen children are supported. Chances are if the % was quite high then it would be for this year's intake too. Perhaps worry come Christmas if it's having a negative affect but right now...worrying when they've not yet been affected is premature

As an ex teacher I absolutely feel for your child and i hope they are not impacted but I also feel a lot more for those with disabilities having to struggle in a setting not suitable for them. There needs to be more specialist schools and more funding.

Not all children with needs are disruptive/violent either

Both my children have autism and we're absolute gifts to their teachers and class. They are/were the best behaved in class, academically advanced way beyond their peers, very supportive of other children.

DS is often pair with another older boy with autism who has really struggled in class. His behaviour improves massively when he's with DS because of how they connect.

DD is now a fully qualified special needs teacher herself.

In other words, don't write off kids with SEN. They may be an asset to your child's education.

Education is not fine at the moment. It sounds like it will be a difficult class to manage but not an unusual class, and looking at a different school doesn’t mean the situation will be better, and could well be worse, because a ‘lovely local CofE primary’ doesn’t sound like it is also facing large swathes of its intake being from deprived backgrounds on top of the SEN difficulties.

All prImaries are seeing an increase in SEN needs post-pandemic. Funding and support has not increased to match.

Completely irrelevant as not the types of needs that the children in the OP's child's class have. She has clearly sated the type of need that is likely to be disruptive

@Heatherbell1978 · Today 11:59
My daughter (P1-Scotland) has just one SEN kid in her class out of a class of 25, diagnosed anyway, and it got to the point last year that the class were being evacuated up to 3 times a day while he kicked, bit and abused the teacher who had to deal with him while the other 23 kids were taken to the dining hall. My daughter would get terribly upset watching this and a few of us parents had to politely suggest to the school that 1 child can't hold the rest to ransom.*

With respect, I've no doubt the class teacher and the evacuation staff had already mentioned the very same idea.

Disastrous funding cuts and lack of SEN provision nationally means that it is likely that these children will not be able to access the support they require. This will have significant ripple effect on staff and the other pupils. It is not at all uncommon for a class to be very negatively impacted by the fact that their are children with unmet needs in the class and particularly where the needs manifest behaviourally this can be hugely disruptive. Schools are trying their best in most cases but the resources needed are not available. Add to that a massive staffing shortage and recruitment crisis, not to mention a minority of parents of children with severe and complex who insist upon mainstream provision even when it is wholly inappropriate and you have got a perfect storm.

This. Echoed by a close friend who is a very experienced and dedicated mainstream reception teacher and from my own experience in SEN provision.

The state of education for those with additional needs is shocking. My child needs a specialist school. All the professionals involved in his care - teacher, 2 educational psychologists (local authority and private), 2 speech and language therapists (NHS and private), 2 occupational therapists (NHS and private), paediatrician and social worker are all in agreement that he needs a specialist school.

The local authority however, deem mainstream to be appropriate and we are required to take them to court to challenge this, which we are, which has a wait of 13 months between requesting an appeal to getting a hearing.