Number of children with additional needs in son’s class

[Sazzle12345]

DS is starting school in September. He is going to a lovely local CofE primary and has a number of friends from pre school in his class. It is a 30 child per year intake.

I have zero experience of teaching and am hoping that someone can put my mind at rest.

I know approx half of the class, and of those that I know 4 have additional needs - likely ADHD / autism (but too young for formal diagnosis). I know 2 of the children very well and their parents are of the view that their children won’t be able to remain in the class for long periods and will need one to one support. Both of them struggle with aggression when in large groups.

Whilst not wishing to sound in any way insensitive to the needs of those children (I appreciate life must be very tough at times for them and their parents), my concern is for my DS.

The class has one teacher and one TA. I don’t understand how the rest of the class will be able to be cared for, let alone given any sort of teaching when at any one time there are likely to be at least 2 children that need to be outside the room and others who will need extra hand holding beyond what is normal in a reception class.

Am I worrying unnecessarily? Do teachers have super powers that I am oblivious to? Or is this sort of number of children with additional needs the norm in a class of 30?

I have tried to phrase this sensitively as I genuinely do not wish to be in any way rude or insensitive to any SEN children or their parents.

It's entirely relevant as she's extrapolating from the 2 kids she knows to judge all the kids who may have SEN.

@MrsMikeDrop What about longer term outcomes, how do these children compare academically to others their age

Not sure which cohort you are referring to? However, our standardised school testing shows that while initially the children who were older when they started are streets ahead (that’s a bit Captain Obvious), by Yr 3 they have pretty much started to even out in terms of academic results and at Yr5 you can’t tell who was younger and who was older when they started school. It appears to shift from age based ability to inherent ability in terms of academic outcomes, so by the time they leave primary and hit high school there is no difference. Not sure if this is universally true, but is what the testing in our local system indicates.

My sen child goes privately and her class has more with additional needs than the state school equivalent that she left. For some parents, private is the answer to having a sen child educated so don’t automatically assume otherwise. Like with many autistic girls, most people would never know she is nd.

Depends on the severity of needs. My daughters Reception class of 28 has three kids in with severe autism. They all have one to ones and work in the room with "their" kid, all day every day, as well as there being the class teacher and a general TA.

However if the need is less severe the SEND kids may get a one to one for only some of the time. Sadly huge funding cuts have made this increasingly the case.

My neighbour took her children out of school a couple of years ago. Both were in classes with very disruptive SEN children. She really tried to keep them at the school and support the teachers but they were not learning anything as the teacher was too distracted. One of her DC was bitten and kicked several times. She now happily home educates them and says that other children also left the school.

It is not a good situation for any child or family.

Thank you for all of your comments. What a sorry situation for everyone.

in answer to the question raised by @Putdownthecake I did ask and typically the school has very low SEN numbers. There is another school locally which is well known for its SEN provision and therefore has much higher numbers. It therefore appears that this is an unusual cohort for this school.

For comparison, my son's mainstream year 4 class...

29 kids total

2 kids with EHCPs (one for autism, one for type 1 diabetes)
1 kid with diagnosed ADHD
2 other kids with suspected neurodivergent issues - awaiting diagnosis.

Just to add to the comments about what a shitshow SEND funding is currently... My son has moderate autism and we're starting the process of getting him a SEND place. Was told the waiting list for SEND tribunals in our area was 16 months (that's in addition to the time it takes the LEA to process and respond to applications from families.)

It's definitely becoming a massive issue. My friend was saying that her DS's secondary school's Year 7 intake this year has 1 in 5 children with additional needs.

Theirs is an 8 form year, so approximate 240 children per year, around 48 of those in Y7 having additional needs.

The SEN school that a family member of mine went to caters to 2 - 19 year olds and has a "capacity" of 680 according to the government pages.

Actual numbers registered? 724!

Normal.

Similar to DS's class. He's yr3 now and the problem we have had is COVID.

It meant that getting formal diagnosis took much longer as the school couldn't refer during that period. Then the parents of the most difficult child were obstructive and delayed even further.

So one of the two boys who needs a one to one only got that mid way through the year and the disruptive one who keeps kicking off is still in process.

DS in the process of ADHD referral. Should have been picked up and dealt with over a year ago. Several other kids with SEN that I know of too. There are six that are definitely plus another couple who probably get picked up later. It's a tough class.

But this is also where you have the benefit of reception - it's time to get those things up and running and it sounds like it's already in process and parents on board.

You will find it's similar everywhere. The difference is down to how well supported the kids are by parents and the school rather than the number of SEN kids.

You won't escape it

You are right to be concerned - and I this as the parent of a child with SEN who couldn’t cope around other children with SEN who were loud or “broke rules” especially if they were rude to the teachers. One of the reasons she isn’t in school anymore.

I don’t know the answers but I do think there is a myth that mainstream school is suitable for all children with SEN. It isn’t. Peddling that myth disadvantages every child as well as putting more pressure on stressed staff who are often out of their depth. It’s a myth that the Government are very keen to push though.

OP sounds similar to what my DD primary school set up will be. However the school has a facility so those who are on the autistic spectrum will be taught separately as they individually require it.

This is why so many teachers are leaving. It’s not fair to them to face daily disruptions and violence in their workplace, nor the children.

DD's teacher (class of 27) somehow runs a very calm and productive classroom. There are at least three children in the class with SEN (but not requiring 1-to-1 staff). There is one TA who is often out of the room with one or more kids who need extra support at that moment so often it is just the one teacher handling the whole class. The whole school has a calm air about it which I'm sure helps.

DD's previous school had much smaller class sizes and an unbelievable ratio of two teaching staff to a class of ten, plus an additional 1-to-1 TA for a child with SEN, but the school had an atmosphere that fostered anxiety amongst a significant proportion of the kids. It was a very stressful situation for all concerned.

It's definitely not always the case that smaller class sizes will be better for the children (SEN or not)

How do you know the class stats OP?

After having DC in primary school and years at the school gates I was never aware on the numbers of kids with SEN in my DC's classes.

Plus, if its the stats you say be prepared for it to rise. My DS's SEN was not confirmed until Year 6.

Absolutely. We have the ridiculous situation where we have parents in mainstream absolutely desperately trying to get a specialist placement for their child and at the same time parents absolutely insisting upon mainstream despite the fact that all professionals involved with the child have clearly stated that they need a specialist provision.

My DS is in a class of 13. I know of 3 in the class with SEN (my DS included). I wouldn't say your situation is out of the ordinary and most other schools your DC could attend would have a similar situation.

Thinking back to my own childhood in the 90s, alot of SEN was not recognised in the same way and lots of DC were seen as just naughty or weird so I'd imagine our school experience was similar to that of DC now.

My 11yo’s class has 3 children with ADHD, one registered blind, one with dyslexia, and two with autism - one diagnosed and one, my DD, who is on the pathway and I am enormously glad we’re at this school which is so proactive at spotting potential neurodiversities and supporting adjustments and diagnosis.

Its a mainstream school but over the years many kids have moved from other schools so this one as it has such a good SEN department.

There have been moments where children have been disruptive to the class, but overall I feel it is brilliant for the children to mix and it’s raising a generation of kids who are understanding of neurodiversity, which is in everyone’s benefit.

Sometimes school deliberately ignore SEN though and even try to persuade parents away from diagnosis or block it.

We had a SENCO who says there is “no point in labels” and is reluctant to put children on SEN register (she lied and said she had done it with my DD when she hadn’t). Tried to get in the way of EHCP request by leaving most pages of school feedback blank and insisting “we don’t see anything”.

My child was diagnosed with autism and adhd and professionals definitely “see it” quite quickly when they are knowledgeable about ASD and the way girls present. I know 4 other girls local to me who went through the same process and faced the same attitude.

So, when schools take that attitude, the numbers look lower then they really are. Plus the “naughty or anxious” kids where even the parents haven’t noticed signs yet or are denying them so those DC are on no radars or waitlists.

I have a primary teacher friend who has distressed children in her class showing signs of being neurodivergent, but is told by senior leadership “we don’t need to apply for EHCP” or “this is just bad parenting”.

So what you are seeing, when you think you know how many SEN kids are in your DC’s classroom - that is probably just the tip of the iceberg.