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Caught the school lying to us and GOSH about son's progress

389 replies

LolafromA · 30/04/2023 14:00

Hi everyone. Posting it here as I need an advice. Thanks in advance.
Long story short… My son who is now in Year 4 had speech delay. While still in Nursery we were told by SENCO to sort out the funding and apply for an EHCP. Which we did. Didn’t get the place in the same school so we got accepted to another one. Of course, the new school did not need our ‘funding’ and supported our son using their SEN budget. Now we understand how SEN budgets work so I know we got tricked. During Reception year my son’s speech was developing rapidly. He was a sweet boy, very compliant, had friends, loved going to school and enjoyed learning despite speech problems. The teacher described him to me as having a ‘math head’. Which made sense since my brother is Physicist and my husband Cambridge Uni graduate (Astrophysics).
We got a place eventually at the school that we wanted (that advised us to get an EHCP) and my son started Year 1. He settled well and we received positive feedback about his academic progress. The teacher said he just needs to be more independent but they will work on it.
Now a month later during Parent Teacher meeting I mention to the teacher that my son is being assessed by GOSH (2nd opinion) for High Functioning ASD and I will be bringing forms to fill out about his behaviours etc. The teacher seemed surprised that our son has been diagnosed with ASD (my son is in Year 4 now and I am still not 100% sure but at the same time I realise that I am probably surrounded by aspies in my family (math gene is strong). My brother reminds me of Elon Musk a lot - very inteligent, based in Silicon Valley, studied Physics, Optical Engineer, geeky etc.
Now since I mention ASD, things change at school. All of the sudden I am invited for a meeting with SENCO, teachers and S&L Therapist and told my son needs one on one in Math and English lessons four times a week, lego therapy, of course S&L therapy. The amount of funding needed I was shown £12k costs.
At the same time my son (Year 1, has just turned 6) was assessed by GOSH professionals and the tests showed my son’s spelling is as a 9yo, Math - 8 yo and Early Reading Skills - 7 yo.
Because of Covid lockdown I found out these results only at the beginning of Year 2. It all made sense to me because I could not understand how this clever boy needs so much support. Remember I had to teach him during lockdown myself.
Year 2 started and I would ask my child if he has a TA. He would say that no and he is learning together with the whole class. I started questioning TA arrangements with the school and was told that my son has TA now. Later turned out TA was spending only 20 min twice a week with my son. Smoke and mirrors I know… Then another lockdown started from around Xmas. Again I got to witness my boy how easy he is to work with, how amazing memory he has, reads a text - answer questions correctly, comprehends etc So after the lockdown I started calling Local Authority as I felt we are being exploited. His EHCP was bringing the school extra 3k (top up funding). I ceased EHCP at the end of Year 2. Speech Therapist was giving him identical English lessons that I had to teach my son during lockdown myself. So I realised it’s another ‘smoke & mirrors’. The school tried hard to pursue us to keep an ECHP however I followed my gut feeling and told them to stop all the support as my child doesn’t need it. And guess what? My son had a good Year 3.
Meantime GOSH sent Educational Psychologist to observe my son (beginning of Year 3). Around Xmas I get a report from
Gosh and I can’t believe what I am reading. See below.

Cognitive and Academic Development
L cannot maintain independent learning without support and prompting. Mr X reported that L is reading at approximately a year 2 level (1 year behind). However, comprehension is a significant struggle; L struggles with inference and even simple retrieval of information he has read. Even with modelling, he struggles to answer basic questions.
Friendships and Relationships
Mr X reported that L had one friend, and that if that child were absent one day L would probably be on his own (e.g. during breaks), as he would struggle to join in socially with the other children. Mr X said that L does not have good social skills and only has one friend.
Mr X informed me that L previously had 1:1 support most of the time but now does not. Mr X feels that Lukas does need 1:1 support as he is unable to work independently without support.

Meantime a month before that above feedback to GOSH, SENCO’s reply to us:

In terms of verbal interaction, we would be looking closely at how he is doing so in the classroom.
There is no dispute that he is interacting well with his close friends in the playground. I also added into the annual review report about vour observations of him in the playground with other children.
Indeed, LA may feel that the TA support that L requires can be met by the class TA. I have made it clear that he does not need full time 1:1 in the classroom. It is quite normal to prompt other children from time to time, L just needs a little more than this. Mr P (Year 2 teacher) said that L is a lovely child to have in the class and easy to work with.

So after reading the GOSH report I go and speak to Mr X and ask how come my son’s reading is a year behind. Mr X replies ‘Don’t worry about L’s reading. His reading is fine!’ I said ‘Well I have just read Gosh report and it said this and this. Mr X suggests to speak about it all via Zoom when Parent Teacher meeting happens.
PS My son always had a group of friends and is a popular, soft spoken boy, polite and its all written in the End of Year Reports.
So during Parent/ Teacher meeting Mr X tells me my son scored above average in comprehension tests, has a group of friends, very good in mental math, has good vocabulary etc
I contacted GOSH and emailed all the correspondence (evidence) from SENCO regarding my son. Emailed all the evidence of how my son scored top mark 40/40 in Phonics and what Mr X said about his comprehension, friendships etc
GOSH right away arranged joint Zoom meeting with Mr X, SENCO and me. And all lies have been exposed. Complete silence from SENCO! They did not even try to defend their previous feedback.
GOSH said kids like L fly under the radar, his ASD case is subtle, he will do well academically and when he is a teen he may find it harder to fit in, may get depressed.
By the way GOSH Educational Psychologist in his report said he doesn’t see any anxiety in my son and that L is a very happy child from what he observed during PE lesson. Also at the end of Year 3 Mr X (Year 3 teacher) reported my child as very confident.
So Year 4 starts (this school year) and during Parent/ Teacher meeting Mrs F starts throwing hints at me how L has ADHD. I know.. lol I explained to her that he definitely does not. I studied and educated myself on both - Asd (subtle cases) and ADHD. SENCO gets called in. Complete silence from her. I leave the meeting saying how it’s time for us to have a meeting with the Headteacher which we did. I was furious! We had a meeting, brought up conflicting feedback to GOSH and was told it was Mr X’s opinion at the time about my son’s comprehension. Basically they had an answer for everything eg it was teacher’s opinion.
So I ended up requesting Subject Access Request (all educational records of my child since Year 1). Have a look at the image attached. My son never had comprehension problems!!!! In fact he scored high average!
My question here on Mumsnet would be - what do I do now? Report the school to Local Authority, Ofsted, Dept of Education? I complained to the Chair of Governors but received a reply with little answers. Mainly he advised to contact LA and was opologetic.
Every time my son has assessments now I ask the teacher Mrs F to email me his results. My son is excelling academically, she said he is mixing with the boys and girls, has a close group of friends which obviously I always knew since I organise playdates, meet with his friends/ parents in the playgrounds. I see how he interacts. You would not even know he has ASD but as I mentioned earlier, lets see how his teenage years go. Maybe that’s when I will see the symptoms.
As of now I need a realistic advice on what can be done to expose / stop the school doing this to another family.
Thank you.

OP posts:
Samee20 · 01/05/2023 11:20

@Samee20 maybe when you have been through the assessment process you will know how it works as well.

Haven't been through this assessment at all but there were speech issues during Covid-19 with my child (I was overly worried because of premature birth) but my child started talking after a few months and the SALT fortunately mentioned that in her report so i stopped all the assessments based on this. Although I had my friends to help me in the process. lt does help knowing someone from medical field when you are dealing with them.

hiredandsqueak · 01/05/2023 11:29

@Samee20 glad your child got the help they needed and were subsequently discharged. Had there been further concerns from you or SALT then you would have been fully involved in the process of establishing where any difficulties lay. OP's child wasn't diagnosed without her input, it's quite an intense and draining process for a parent. Just because the OP isn't happy that a diagnosis was given it doesn't mean that the two assessment providers were wrong. GOSH assessment team are seen as experts in their field so not a shabby second rate outfit that we are talking about.

CaptainMyCaptain · 01/05/2023 11:40

LolafromA · 01/05/2023 10:36

My son is left handed. Would being left handed would make him write slower, form letters differently?

It sometimes, but not always, makes it more difficult at first. I don't think it would count towards an ECHP.

CaptainMyCaptain · 01/05/2023 11:42

EHCP

Shinyandnew1 · 01/05/2023 11:47

LolafromA · 30/04/2023 20:02

This is spot on! :-) Thanks for putting it so clearly!

Why on earth did you go back to school 1 when you were so clearly unhappy with it and much happier in school 2?!

During last meeting with GOSH and school last year

In all my years in schools, I have never attended a single meeting where a paediatrician attended once, let alone there being multiple meetings!

LolafromA · 01/05/2023 11:48

Shinyandnew1 · 01/05/2023 10:52

Of course, the new school did not need our ‘funding’ and supported our son using their SEN budget. Now we understand how SEN budgets work so I know we got tricked.

Who tricked you and how?

We got a place eventually at the school that we wanted (that advised us to get an EHCP) and my son started Year 1.

If it was the original school that ‘tricked’ you, why did you leave the school who didn’t need your funding and supported your son to go back to them?

I will give you an example. During mid Year 1 we are told L needs £12k support. I was just agreeing with it. But kept thinking how come L needs that much support. So this report with 11k costs get sent to LA to ask for a top up funding. At the end of Year 1 LA agrees to provide extra £3k since the school is spending that much (well above 6k).
Year 2 starts, I don’t see any support in place apart from S&L weekly sessions. However my son is happy, loves going to school and is in fact learning so I don’t worry to much. Later that year I do ask the school how come he needed 12k worth support but now has no TA 1:1 and is learning together with the whole class. The school calls me back saying there is new TA for my son in place. In Spring during the lockdown I find out that TA would spend 20 min with my son week but she would use Portuguese words while speaking to him. All witnessed by me because I would sit and watch him talking to her. I raised my concerns with LA SEN case worker saying how come the school assigned TA for my son (whom we are teaching English) who uses foreign words while talking to my child. The case worker says this doesn’t sound right you should complain to school. So I did contact SENCO. She saw no problem in this. By the end of Year 2 SENCO admits my son never needed 1:1. Basically that £12k support was never given to him. Yes, I felt tricked. Then GOSH conflicting feedback raised more questions because one was said to us, different things were said to GOSH.

OP posts:
spanieleyes · 01/05/2023 11:48

I agree, we can't get paediatricians along for anything.
Although I did once speak to one by phone😊, quite a feat!

whowhatwerewhy · 01/05/2023 11:54

Hi op you have left your DS name on one of the attachments

Samee20 · 01/05/2023 11:54

@hiredandsqueak I believe there are many concerns here, the OP says the SALT diagnosed her son on the basis of ADOS and when her child was put on EHCP in school. I feel there is a shock element for the OP because I believe that she didn't knew what was happening or if an appointment and a visit can lead to a formal diagnosis. We need a clear picture on this, point by point how her son was diagnosed to get a clearer picture. As far as I understood (I didn't read every comment as there are 100+) -

  1. Joined reception -Speech and language issues notes so SALT referral made followed by an appointment with the SALT.
  2. The speech issues didn't resolve for an unspecified period of time
  3. In Reception the school put EHCP in place, SALT again saw her son and did ADOS and diagnosed her son because the OP feels her son was on EHCP and based on ADOS.
  4. OP went for a second opinion, GOSH were unsure initially and said to wait and also said that that sometimes symptoms occurs during teenage years, then after a period of time an educational psychologist went to the school and he didn't note ASD symptoms but confirmed the diagnosis based on Mr X (teacher) feedback. This is what I can comprehend from what the OP has written. I don't know what is written in the medical report. If this is what happened then I would be very surprised but I am a third party who doesn't have all the available information. The only reasonable suggestion I can give to the OP is speak to the doctor to know or go through the records to see if something has been missed out or not. I would also like to know after how long the diagnosis was made because I have heard that it takes years to diagnose with ASD? May be it works differently everywhere? I am just trying to help the OP because it's clear that she is in distress about the diagnosis, may be if she asks for an explanation from the medical provider they can help?
Shinyandnew1 · 01/05/2023 11:55

@LolafromA I am still very confused! Maybe if you try to answer questions without giving lengthy examples, things would be clearer.

Which school tricked you? School 1 or school 2? Why did you leave school 2 and return to school 1?

LolafromA · 01/05/2023 11:56

whowhatwerewhy · 01/05/2023 11:54

Hi op you have left your DS name on one of the attachments

It’s ok just leave it.. I will ask this thread to be deleted at some point. I am reading all your advice and ‘take notes’.

OP posts:
FloatingBean · 01/05/2023 11:58

Shinyandnew1 · 01/05/2023 11:47

Why on earth did you go back to school 1 when you were so clearly unhappy with it and much happier in school 2?!

During last meeting with GOSH and school last year

In all my years in schools, I have never attended a single meeting where a paediatrician attended once, let alone there being multiple meetings!

Just because you haven’t experienced it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. I have been involved in several such meetings. And it is common for GOSH’s neurodevelopmental assessment to include meetings with the school.

FloatingBean · 01/05/2023 11:59

In Reception the school put EHCP in place

No, that is not how EHCPs work. The s hook do not put them in place. The LA issue them following an EHCNA.

Shinyandnew1 · 01/05/2023 12:00

FloatingBean · 01/05/2023 11:58

Just because you haven’t experienced it doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen. I have been involved in several such meetings. And it is common for GOSH’s neurodevelopmental assessment to include meetings with the school.

I didn’t suggest it doesn’t happen. I was just surprised.

I wish it happened much much more.

MarnieCres · 01/05/2023 12:02

Some general advice to think about.

Can you step back from dealing with this and ask your husband to continue. I feel you are so involved that you are no longer able to be objective. The professionals are never going to get this ‘right’ in your eyes because you are interrogating the finer detail from a point of suspicion.

What are your plans for secondary schooling? An EHCP goes a long way to securing your choice of schools. It might be a huge mistake to remove this, if places are sought after locally.

LolafromA · 01/05/2023 12:02

Shinyandnew1 · 01/05/2023 11:55

@LolafromA I am still very confused! Maybe if you try to answer questions without giving lengthy examples, things would be clearer.

Which school tricked you? School 1 or school 2? Why did you leave school 2 and return to school 1?

School 1 (closest school to our home) I felt like tricked us.
To clarify we did not get a place because of the admission criteria (we live close to the school but belong to different LA). The criteria changed the following year and we were back to school 1 to start Year 1.
School 2 (Reception Year) were not interested in our funding and were happy to use their own SEN budget instead. So ECHP never had funding attached until School 1 decided they need a top up as provisional costs will be £12k.

OP posts:
spanieleyes · 01/05/2023 12:03

We have Ed psychs coming into school as part of the assessments but NEVER a paediatrician, I think they explode if they come out of their office!

FloatingBean · 01/05/2023 12:04

but now has no TA 1:1

Was 1:1 detailed, specified and quantified in F? Because from your screenshot it doesn’t look that way.

The case worker says this doesn’t sound right you should complain to school

If the provision was detailed, specified and quantified in F it was the LA with ultimate responsible for ensuring provision in F is provided. ^^ This was the LA fobbing you off.

we did not get a place because of the admission criteria (we live close to the school but belong to different LA)

Living in another LA does not change EHCP admissions to schools.

AbbaG12 · 01/05/2023 12:08

We're going round in circles here.

If you believe the school lied, you need to go to Ofsted and Local Authority to do an investigation.

Do you still want to be at the school but don't want any extra support?
If so, you need to tell the school that but also accept that they're going to pull him up on his behaviour if you want him to be considered neurotypical and have no EHCP or Senco plans to support his behaviour.

Alternatively you need to look at a different school.

Shinyandnew1 · 01/05/2023 12:08

If you were happy with School 2 and not with school 1, it sounds like you maybe should not ever have left and returned to a setting that you actively had issues with.

An EHCP with no funding attached is something I’ve heard of, but not experienced. There seems very little point in it.

hiredandsqueak · 01/05/2023 12:13

So what is your motivation behind all this OP? What do you want from it all? I can't see what you are hoping to gain from this? If you are unhappy with the school move him elsewhere. If you don't trust the school to have your child's best interests at heart, move him elsewhere. They must be exhausted from all this angst.
My dd has had her EHCP (and SSEN predecessor) since she was three, she's now tewnty at times she maybe hasn't needed all the support the funding brought but that was largely dependent on the teacher and the class she was in plus she went to a school where there were three or four TAs in a class so lots of support on hand for everyone. I kept the EHCP and supported the school in their assertions that it was needed because extra support (even if not strictly needed by dd in the moment) is of benefit to her by keeping the class calm and focussed which helps her enormously.
Unfortunately, life was much harder when she moved to secondary and the environment wasn't kind to her needs, social engagement became more nuanced and pressure to perform became more instense and so using the EHCP we secured an independent specialist school that the LA funded to a cost of £70k a year.
Now she is 20 and LA are funding a programme of education including private SALT and OT input (that are impossible to secure through NHS) because she has an EHCP. It's likely to continue until she is either 25 or starts at uni.
So maybe I colluded with the school to keep the EHCP when she wasn't strictly needing all the support contained within it in that moment but I am so glad I did and suspect you might live to regret that you didn't do likewise.

LolafromA · 01/05/2023 12:13

AbbaG12 · 01/05/2023 12:08

We're going round in circles here.

If you believe the school lied, you need to go to Ofsted and Local Authority to do an investigation.

Do you still want to be at the school but don't want any extra support?
If so, you need to tell the school that but also accept that they're going to pull him up on his behaviour if you want him to be considered neurotypical and have no EHCP or Senco plans to support his behaviour.

Alternatively you need to look at a different school.

My son is well behaved over all. No disturbing behaviours reported in Year 4 (this school year)! So it seems the school misinterpreted it last year! My son was just messing about with his friends.

OP posts:
LolafromA · 01/05/2023 12:13

*disruptive I meant

OP posts:
Shinyandnew1 · 01/05/2023 12:20

LolafromA · 01/05/2023 12:13

My son is well behaved over all. No disturbing behaviours reported in Year 4 (this school year)! So it seems the school misinterpreted it last year! My son was just messing about with his friends.

So, what do you actually want to happen?!!

hiredandsqueak · 01/05/2023 12:22

Shinyandnew1 · 01/05/2023 12:20

So, what do you actually want to happen?!!

God knows, two hundred posts in and it's not any clearer. I actually feel really sorry for the school I bet they are counting down the days.