Caught the school lying to us and GOSH about son's progress

[LolafromA]

Hi everyone. Posting it here as I need an advice. Thanks in advance.
Long story short… My son who is now in Year 4 had speech delay. While still in Nursery we were told by SENCO to sort out the funding and apply for an EHCP. Which we did. Didn’t get the place in the same school so we got accepted to another one. Of course, the new school did not need our ‘funding’ and supported our son using their SEN budget. Now we understand how SEN budgets work so I know we got tricked. During Reception year my son’s speech was developing rapidly. He was a sweet boy, very compliant, had friends, loved going to school and enjoyed learning despite speech problems. The teacher described him to me as having a ‘math head’. Which made sense since my brother is Physicist and my husband Cambridge Uni graduate (Astrophysics).
We got a place eventually at the school that we wanted (that advised us to get an EHCP) and my son started Year 1. He settled well and we received positive feedback about his academic progress. The teacher said he just needs to be more independent but they will work on it.
Now a month later during Parent Teacher meeting I mention to the teacher that my son is being assessed by GOSH (2nd opinion) for High Functioning ASD and I will be bringing forms to fill out about his behaviours etc. The teacher seemed surprised that our son has been diagnosed with ASD (my son is in Year 4 now and I am still not 100% sure but at the same time I realise that I am probably surrounded by aspies in my family (math gene is strong). My brother reminds me of Elon Musk a lot - very inteligent, based in Silicon Valley, studied Physics, Optical Engineer, geeky etc.
Now since I mention ASD, things change at school. All of the sudden I am invited for a meeting with SENCO, teachers and S&L Therapist and told my son needs one on one in Math and English lessons four times a week, lego therapy, of course S&L therapy. The amount of funding needed I was shown £12k costs.
At the same time my son (Year 1, has just turned 6) was assessed by GOSH professionals and the tests showed my son’s spelling is as a 9yo, Math - 8 yo and Early Reading Skills - 7 yo.
Because of Covid lockdown I found out these results only at the beginning of Year 2. It all made sense to me because I could not understand how this clever boy needs so much support. Remember I had to teach him during lockdown myself.
Year 2 started and I would ask my child if he has a TA. He would say that no and he is learning together with the whole class. I started questioning TA arrangements with the school and was told that my son has TA now. Later turned out TA was spending only 20 min twice a week with my son. Smoke and mirrors I know… Then another lockdown started from around Xmas. Again I got to witness my boy how easy he is to work with, how amazing memory he has, reads a text - answer questions correctly, comprehends etc So after the lockdown I started calling Local Authority as I felt we are being exploited. His EHCP was bringing the school extra 3k (top up funding). I ceased EHCP at the end of Year 2. Speech Therapist was giving him identical English lessons that I had to teach my son during lockdown myself. So I realised it’s another ‘smoke & mirrors’. The school tried hard to pursue us to keep an ECHP however I followed my gut feeling and told them to stop all the support as my child doesn’t need it. And guess what? My son had a good Year 3.
Meantime GOSH sent Educational Psychologist to observe my son (beginning of Year 3). Around Xmas I get a report from
Gosh and I can’t believe what I am reading. See below.

Cognitive and Academic Development
L cannot maintain independent learning without support and prompting. Mr X reported that L is reading at approximately a year 2 level (1 year behind). However, comprehension is a significant struggle; L struggles with inference and even simple retrieval of information he has read. Even with modelling, he struggles to answer basic questions.
Friendships and Relationships
Mr X reported that L had one friend, and that if that child were absent one day L would probably be on his own (e.g. during breaks), as he would struggle to join in socially with the other children. Mr X said that L does not have good social skills and only has one friend.
Mr X informed me that L previously had 1:1 support most of the time but now does not. Mr X feels that Lukas does need 1:1 support as he is unable to work independently without support.

Meantime a month before that above feedback to GOSH, SENCO’s reply to us:

In terms of verbal interaction, we would be looking closely at how he is doing so in the classroom.
There is no dispute that he is interacting well with his close friends in the playground. I also added into the annual review report about vour observations of him in the playground with other children.
Indeed, LA may feel that the TA support that L requires can be met by the class TA. I have made it clear that he does not need full time 1:1 in the classroom. It is quite normal to prompt other children from time to time, L just needs a little more than this. Mr P (Year 2 teacher) said that L is a lovely child to have in the class and easy to work with.

So after reading the GOSH report I go and speak to Mr X and ask how come my son’s reading is a year behind. Mr X replies ‘Don’t worry about L’s reading. His reading is fine!’ I said ‘Well I have just read Gosh report and it said this and this. Mr X suggests to speak about it all via Zoom when Parent Teacher meeting happens.
PS My son always had a group of friends and is a popular, soft spoken boy, polite and its all written in the End of Year Reports.
So during Parent/ Teacher meeting Mr X tells me my son scored above average in comprehension tests, has a group of friends, very good in mental math, has good vocabulary etc
I contacted GOSH and emailed all the correspondence (evidence) from SENCO regarding my son. Emailed all the evidence of how my son scored top mark 40/40 in Phonics and what Mr X said about his comprehension, friendships etc
GOSH right away arranged joint Zoom meeting with Mr X, SENCO and me. And all lies have been exposed. Complete silence from SENCO! They did not even try to defend their previous feedback.
GOSH said kids like L fly under the radar, his ASD case is subtle, he will do well academically and when he is a teen he may find it harder to fit in, may get depressed.
By the way GOSH Educational Psychologist in his report said he doesn’t see any anxiety in my son and that L is a very happy child from what he observed during PE lesson. Also at the end of Year 3 Mr X (Year 3 teacher) reported my child as very confident.
So Year 4 starts (this school year) and during Parent/ Teacher meeting Mrs F starts throwing hints at me how L has ADHD. I know.. lol I explained to her that he definitely does not. I studied and educated myself on both - Asd (subtle cases) and ADHD. SENCO gets called in. Complete silence from her. I leave the meeting saying how it’s time for us to have a meeting with the Headteacher which we did. I was furious! We had a meeting, brought up conflicting feedback to GOSH and was told it was Mr X’s opinion at the time about my son’s comprehension. Basically they had an answer for everything eg it was teacher’s opinion.
So I ended up requesting Subject Access Request (all educational records of my child since Year 1). Have a look at the image attached. My son never had comprehension problems!!!! In fact he scored high average!
My question here on Mumsnet would be - what do I do now? Report the school to Local Authority, Ofsted, Dept of Education? I complained to the Chair of Governors but received a reply with little answers. Mainly he advised to contact LA and was opologetic.
Every time my son has assessments now I ask the teacher Mrs F to email me his results. My son is excelling academically, she said he is mixing with the boys and girls, has a close group of friends which obviously I always knew since I organise playdates, meet with his friends/ parents in the playgrounds. I see how he interacts. You would not even know he has ASD but as I mentioned earlier, lets see how his teenage years go. Maybe that’s when I will see the symptoms.
As of now I need a realistic advice on what can be done to expose / stop the school doing this to another family.
Thank you.

I agree that your son is your son regardless and he may have what used to be called aspergers (now ASC is the umbrella term), or he may have some autistic traits that are currently not causing struggles on a persistent, daily basis. It is early days though.
Parental conversation on development, parental concerns, child's point of view - these are all mandatory fields now. Given concerns over the number of referrals atm, mental health in general, overdiagnosis etc I say this gently - the diagnosis you have may help in the future level the playing field for your son.
State secondary teachers will not treat him any differently if he is achieving well alongside his peers - but if he does show any signs of struggling at key stage 4 then you already have the evidence to advocate for him.
No need to reject a diagnosis unless I am missing something here as I am not acquainted with the private sector.

A school doesn't need to spend £6000 for an EHCP, if there was only £3000 given to school funding package was £9000, which is significant need, not the lowest amount of top up funding. To end an EHCP, is also a legal process, the LA have to consider outcomes have been met and in this case, the delegated budget is sufficient- so that less than £6000 is needed. If a parent is so strong in not wanting it to continue, the school will do their best a shave off support to bring it under £6000 as the structure of the sentence suggests. However, even if they spend the £6000, this may not be meeting the child's needs, many parents are told, we are not spending £6000 therefore not eligible, which is wrong as the school can legitimately spend 0, because without an EHCP a school only needs to do best endeavours, which if you have a well behaved, polite, generally at age related is what happens regardless of need. So many parents are in that scenario they would honestly not believe anyone would give up an EHCP. Support normally available goes down dramatically in secondary and there are no TA's in classroom except with EHCP children, to help prompt to initiate a task. To the original question, I don't see that the school has lied. If anything they were proactive in identifying is part of the 2% eligible for additional support beyond school budget - many families would be grateful to have got the S&L support so early.

Thanks for the replies. Would someone help me to understand how this End of Year (Year 3) reports looks. Is narrative writing where the kids with ASD find it difficult to do?

So this is the experience of someone I know who works in the education field. This person mentioned that there was a senco in the secondary school who would try to put labels on children, other teachers felt he was ott, even the person who mentored him. So I do know people do lie, it's easier to ask why they would do that, but there is good and bad in every sector and nasty politics do happens. I feel the OP doesn't agree that her son has ASD and usually parents who have kids with asd have a difficult time managing their children but this mum says she doesn't. It might be the case that a misdiagnosis had happened by the therapist initially. OP says the only persistent issues she has is of speech but he is still progressing. I feel this has created a vicious circle, therapist diagnosing her son with asd, then she asked for a second opinion where they were not sure and said that her son might struggle in the future when he is a teenager. As far as I know there shouldn't be a diagnosis based on the future struggle may or may not happen. I feel the second hospital was reluctant to brush aside the diagnosis of asd which the local therapist has given. Doctors will usually be reluctant to say that the other doctor is wrong so they confirm the diagnosis based on the school's feedback which is conflicting and therefore, not really true in my opinion. Considering the OP has said that the school has given conflicting information I wouldn't trust them and i am sure most of the people will not trusy when given conflicting info, add to it what this mum has reported about her son's progress. The doctors should also have taken parents feedback into account before confirming a diagnosis. It goes back to the initial diagnosis made by the therapist , I believe if the OP has complained then and there, this struggle could have been avoided. For every misdiagnosis there is a child in need that loses out. I have a friend who is a consultant and he says that even they do mistakes and I really respect him for that.
If it was me I would have taken out the child out of the current school and put him in a different school to see if they also have to same issues with her son and then it will be easier to compare if the current school (or one teacher) lied or not. I believe that's a only way to know. With regards to the diagnosis- if the OP seriously feels that its a misdiagnosis then she should contact the hospital and speak to the doctor and tell her concerns with evidence.

@LolafromA , I mean this kindly. You are coming across as extremely intense, almost obsessive over this. Are you ok? Do you have family support?

I am also wondering whether your communication style has led to these difficulties and misunderstandings between you and the school and other agencies.

Not forming letters correctly and from the wrong starting point jumps out straight away. As does the being slow to complete written tasks. Narrative writing is usually one of the easier - particularly if you're just retelling a known story.

Not forming letters correctly and from the wrong starting point is very common.

Not by the end of year 3

OK. This thread has been quite confusing I thought this was in Reception.

@CaptainMyCaptain it is incredibly confusing!

No he’s almost at the end of year 4

But I understand why you’re confused!

Aspergers is a very outdated term it would just be ASD now

@Samee20 OPs child has had two assessments who both concluded ASD. One being Great Ormond Street Hospital so hardly a questionable service provider. OP seemingly asked for a second opinion and is now seemingly unhappy that second opinion supported the diagnosis given by the first assessment. OP appears to believe that by removing the EHCP because she felt others were benefiting she will be better placed to assert child doesn't meet her very limited understanding and stereotypical beliefs of how ASD presents.

Is narrative writing where the kids with ASD find it difficult to do?

Children with ASD are all different. It’s a spectrum. Some will flourish at writing, some will struggle, some will just be okay. There’s not one specific set of traits or abilities and these may change subtly or significantly over time.

Now I will tell you another story. I copied the text from my complaint to Chair of Governors. I will be contacting GOSH! This is how ADHD concerns were ‘born’. But when I asked the teacher about it afterwards she just shook her head (no eye contact with me) and said ‘I don’t know anything about this. I just said what was handed over to me.’
We are now approaching summer and I heard nothing about ADHD concerns. My son is on his best behaviour.

Also note that EHCP was granted purely on Speech & Language needs. So the moment my son became fluent the plan became irrelevant. When my son got an EHCP granted he was not diagnosed with ASD yet. But him having this plan influenced the speech therapist’s decision to think he has ASD and he is struggling.

I also asked GOSH not to share the report with the school. I explained to them that I will share it when it will be needed. And look how disruptive behaviours can quickly become an
‘ADHD’ and then the truth comes out..

Moving on onto Year 3, I would say we had a smooth year. TA and SALT support has been ceased and Lwas on his own! Mr X kept L seated close to his desk in case he needs any help. Mr X kept reporting L being disruptive in the class now and again. L would act silly and say things like ‘okey dokey’, ‘what a nice day’. Mr X said when told off L would smirk and he thinks L is well aware and knows what he is doing. I mentioned to Mr X that L is being assessed (2nd opinion) by GOSH for High Functioning Autism and maybe that is a possible symptom of ASD? Mr X said ‘No, I don’t think so, unless I‘m reading him wrong, but I think he is well aware of his behavior’.
So, during this Zoom meeting with GOSH I mentioned earlier (mid Year 3), this gets reported by the school as a symptom of ASD. I could tell SENCO wanted to make sure this gets reported and noted as a symptom and of course GOSH took it seriously and explained to us all that L should not be told off and would have gentle reminders to be quiet. This time Mr X kept quiet with his opinions. However, after the meeting with GOSH as the time went by Mr X kept reporting L being disruptive and how he thinks that he is well aware about what he is doing. At the end of Year 3 L told me he was asked to leave the classroom twice for being disruptive. Then during the assembly The Headteacher asked L to leave the assembly and go to her office and think of his behavior! Apparently, L said something/made a noise when she was speaking about good behavior. So an autistic child is being sent to think about his behavior!? Sounds horrible! I found out about all of this from L and at that point I called the school and talked to Mr X about what was going on. Mr X said he still believes that L is well aware of his naughty behavior and he is not the only one who is naughty. There are other kids that are being asked to stand outside the classroom too. He made me think this is normal behaviour for an 8 year old. I said I am afraid this may affect L’s confidence if he is being asked ‘to think about his behaviour’ considering he has ASD. Mr X said that L is in fact very confident! And then he said how L shouts out his maths answers without lifting his hand first. We joked and laughed about my question ‘Are the answers at least correct?’ To which Mr X answered ‘Yes, they mostly are but I want him to lift his arm, and wait and let other pupils answer too’. I will talk later of what L confessed to us and these disruptive behaviours. Mr X was right!
Just to note - these naughty behaviors were reported on the Year 3 End of Year Report. I found it a bit weird to see them reported there thinking why is it so important? I would say throughout Year 3 Mr X complained to me about 5 times.

…..

Then during the same meeting Mrs X starts ‘throwing’ hints at me about how L has ADHD. I said, no L doesn’t have it, he has ASD. So Mrs X brings some of L's work and says, but look, he wrote only one sentence in a History lesson. It took him 5 min to write it. I said this doesn’t make any sense. I am not in the classroom so I can’t help you but I don’t have any ‘ADHD’ problems at home.
I am sure GOSH (Great Ormond Street Hospital) would have let us know if our child showed signs of ADHD! So I go home and ask L about the History lesson and the one sentence he wrote. L says, "They took me out of History lesson so I could do some ‘confidence boosting session’ and I missed 25 min or so of the History lesson. When I came back the teacher told me to write something about the Vikings and I had no idea what to write!" It made me wonder is that the reason they put disruptive behaviors on the End of Year 3 report so it looks like he has ADHD? Are they still making up the special needs? What do they gain out of this?

Talking about L’s focus, Mr X reported last year that L in fact is listening and follows the lesson. Mr X would deliberately ask him some questions about the lesson and L would give him the right answers.
Now we are going to talk about ‘disruptive behaviors’. So, during summer holidays this year (2022) L confesses to us, saying how he likes his friend A even though he tells him to do things he doesn’t like doing. My husband and I said, ‘You have to tell us what he is telling you to do that you don’t like doing!’ We had all kinds of thoughts! L said he was not going to tell us and I told my husband to leave it as L will confess at some point when we are back in X. And in fact, two weeks into Year 4, L told me that A would tell him to be naughty and ‘okey dokey’ was O’s idea. The way I understood that 4-5 of them would make a plan to tease Mr X. L said that A is not doing this anymore in Year 4 and L is now very sensible. I reported L’s confession during this year’s Parent/ Teacher meeting. SENCO was smiling while listening. It shows how easily the school can twist any behaviour of L and make it into a special need! It’s concerning!

Everyone makes mistakes, I feel GOSH diagnosed it based purely on the school's report which the OP claims is false. I would love to know if the psychologist said something on his behalf or what he noticed instead of what the teacher said to him.

Op, is the italic part of this post a copy of your letter to the governors?

If so, I'm sorry to be harsh but I stand by what I said before. Your writing style is very incoherent. When you use anecdotes, they are colourful but it's often not clear what point they are trying to illustrate. I'd be surprised if the chair of governors understood, from this letter, what you want from him/her. It's not clear to me, and I've been reading the whole thread carefully, whereas the chair of govs may well have had less context.

I'm not saying this to be mean (as i say your style reminds me of my DM), but just as a way of explaining that I think this may be a part of the reason why you aren't getting the responses/actions you want from the school. I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't clear at all what outcome it is that you want. Just that you are unsatisfied/making a complaint.

OP why are you so desperate to deny that your child has any additional needs?

It doesn't change who he is. But refusing to accept any help that is offered and burying your head in the sand is just going to hurt him in the long run.

I've met parents like you who refuse to accept that their child is ND. It's so frustrating and heartbreaking for the child.

Ps next time, try writing much less, when sending a complaint. Focus less on what has happened up till now (ie rambling anecdotes and vague blame) and instead focus on what you would like to happen.

So to take one example from your post above your son is shouting out the answers in maths without putting his hand up and disrupting the lesson so that other children can’t answer. He has been asked not to but continues.

To take another he is misbehaving in assembly to the point he is asked to leave.

His school are seeing his behaviour on a daily basis, his school reports show he is not meeting expectations. He has a diagnosis from GOSH.

Why don’t you believe he has ASD?

ASD ( or indeed anything else) is not diagnosed solely on the basis of a school report!

So Ed Psychologist reported no anxiety, happy child, enjoyed PE, my son pretended well to kick some invisible ball, my son did not acknowledge the Ed Ph when he entered the classroom, my son did not ask Ed Ph for any questions while other kids asked him ‘Why are you here etc.’ My son used nodding gesture when asked direct question by the teacher. My son reacted to his friend’s ssshh gesture to be quiet. However my son sat too close to his best friend (boundaries). And my son also fidgeted with his pencil during lesson also looked at the door a lot (whatever that means) and while queueing to go home he fidgeted with his friend’s school bag’s keyring. Oh, and my son didn’t find any transitions difficult (they probably mean leaving the classroom to do PE outside).
At the time of observation my son was only with his best friend. During PE he laughed and was really enjoying it. Things like that were on the report.

Calling out answers without putting your hand up is common, but being disruptive in assembly is really not. The school has offered you a few examples, which you believe on their own don't constitute adhd or asd, but they see him everyday and probably see many more examples and can't list them all.

However, the main point is - what's the harm if they've exaggerated his needs?

Just to reassure you about private secondary... I teach at a selective private secondary - we do occasionally get kids thru with learning profiles that don't seem to match what we see in the kid. Ie the profile says kid needs XYZ support, but the kid doesn't seem to need that. That's why we reassess at intervals during secondary. As for the entrance, we have entrance exams and aren't allowed to discriminate on SEN. In other words if he passes the tests, he's in, regardless of his SEN diagnosis.

As far as I can see there's no harm in erring on the side of overdiagnosis at this age. The TA will be quite hands off if she's not needed. Except there's a risk that the child himself feels "labelled": I'm afraid that's on you for telling him he's autistic (I remember you said the teachers were shocked you'd done that), you didn't need to tell him.

The harsh truth op is that i suspect both the school and the hospital think you are as mad as a box of frogs. That is certainly how you are coming across on this thread