Caught the school lying to us and GOSH about son's progress

[LolafromA]

Hi everyone. Posting it here as I need an advice. Thanks in advance.
Long story short… My son who is now in Year 4 had speech delay. While still in Nursery we were told by SENCO to sort out the funding and apply for an EHCP. Which we did. Didn’t get the place in the same school so we got accepted to another one. Of course, the new school did not need our ‘funding’ and supported our son using their SEN budget. Now we understand how SEN budgets work so I know we got tricked. During Reception year my son’s speech was developing rapidly. He was a sweet boy, very compliant, had friends, loved going to school and enjoyed learning despite speech problems. The teacher described him to me as having a ‘math head’. Which made sense since my brother is Physicist and my husband Cambridge Uni graduate (Astrophysics).
We got a place eventually at the school that we wanted (that advised us to get an EHCP) and my son started Year 1. He settled well and we received positive feedback about his academic progress. The teacher said he just needs to be more independent but they will work on it.
Now a month later during Parent Teacher meeting I mention to the teacher that my son is being assessed by GOSH (2nd opinion) for High Functioning ASD and I will be bringing forms to fill out about his behaviours etc. The teacher seemed surprised that our son has been diagnosed with ASD (my son is in Year 4 now and I am still not 100% sure but at the same time I realise that I am probably surrounded by aspies in my family (math gene is strong). My brother reminds me of Elon Musk a lot - very inteligent, based in Silicon Valley, studied Physics, Optical Engineer, geeky etc.
Now since I mention ASD, things change at school. All of the sudden I am invited for a meeting with SENCO, teachers and S&L Therapist and told my son needs one on one in Math and English lessons four times a week, lego therapy, of course S&L therapy. The amount of funding needed I was shown £12k costs.
At the same time my son (Year 1, has just turned 6) was assessed by GOSH professionals and the tests showed my son’s spelling is as a 9yo, Math - 8 yo and Early Reading Skills - 7 yo.
Because of Covid lockdown I found out these results only at the beginning of Year 2. It all made sense to me because I could not understand how this clever boy needs so much support. Remember I had to teach him during lockdown myself.
Year 2 started and I would ask my child if he has a TA. He would say that no and he is learning together with the whole class. I started questioning TA arrangements with the school and was told that my son has TA now. Later turned out TA was spending only 20 min twice a week with my son. Smoke and mirrors I know… Then another lockdown started from around Xmas. Again I got to witness my boy how easy he is to work with, how amazing memory he has, reads a text - answer questions correctly, comprehends etc So after the lockdown I started calling Local Authority as I felt we are being exploited. His EHCP was bringing the school extra 3k (top up funding). I ceased EHCP at the end of Year 2. Speech Therapist was giving him identical English lessons that I had to teach my son during lockdown myself. So I realised it’s another ‘smoke & mirrors’. The school tried hard to pursue us to keep an ECHP however I followed my gut feeling and told them to stop all the support as my child doesn’t need it. And guess what? My son had a good Year 3.
Meantime GOSH sent Educational Psychologist to observe my son (beginning of Year 3). Around Xmas I get a report from
Gosh and I can’t believe what I am reading. See below.

Cognitive and Academic Development
L cannot maintain independent learning without support and prompting. Mr X reported that L is reading at approximately a year 2 level (1 year behind). However, comprehension is a significant struggle; L struggles with inference and even simple retrieval of information he has read. Even with modelling, he struggles to answer basic questions.
Friendships and Relationships
Mr X reported that L had one friend, and that if that child were absent one day L would probably be on his own (e.g. during breaks), as he would struggle to join in socially with the other children. Mr X said that L does not have good social skills and only has one friend.
Mr X informed me that L previously had 1:1 support most of the time but now does not. Mr X feels that Lukas does need 1:1 support as he is unable to work independently without support.

Meantime a month before that above feedback to GOSH, SENCO’s reply to us:

In terms of verbal interaction, we would be looking closely at how he is doing so in the classroom.
There is no dispute that he is interacting well with his close friends in the playground. I also added into the annual review report about vour observations of him in the playground with other children.
Indeed, LA may feel that the TA support that L requires can be met by the class TA. I have made it clear that he does not need full time 1:1 in the classroom. It is quite normal to prompt other children from time to time, L just needs a little more than this. Mr P (Year 2 teacher) said that L is a lovely child to have in the class and easy to work with.

So after reading the GOSH report I go and speak to Mr X and ask how come my son’s reading is a year behind. Mr X replies ‘Don’t worry about L’s reading. His reading is fine!’ I said ‘Well I have just read Gosh report and it said this and this. Mr X suggests to speak about it all via Zoom when Parent Teacher meeting happens.
PS My son always had a group of friends and is a popular, soft spoken boy, polite and its all written in the End of Year Reports.
So during Parent/ Teacher meeting Mr X tells me my son scored above average in comprehension tests, has a group of friends, very good in mental math, has good vocabulary etc
I contacted GOSH and emailed all the correspondence (evidence) from SENCO regarding my son. Emailed all the evidence of how my son scored top mark 40/40 in Phonics and what Mr X said about his comprehension, friendships etc
GOSH right away arranged joint Zoom meeting with Mr X, SENCO and me. And all lies have been exposed. Complete silence from SENCO! They did not even try to defend their previous feedback.
GOSH said kids like L fly under the radar, his ASD case is subtle, he will do well academically and when he is a teen he may find it harder to fit in, may get depressed.
By the way GOSH Educational Psychologist in his report said he doesn’t see any anxiety in my son and that L is a very happy child from what he observed during PE lesson. Also at the end of Year 3 Mr X (Year 3 teacher) reported my child as very confident.
So Year 4 starts (this school year) and during Parent/ Teacher meeting Mrs F starts throwing hints at me how L has ADHD. I know.. lol I explained to her that he definitely does not. I studied and educated myself on both - Asd (subtle cases) and ADHD. SENCO gets called in. Complete silence from her. I leave the meeting saying how it’s time for us to have a meeting with the Headteacher which we did. I was furious! We had a meeting, brought up conflicting feedback to GOSH and was told it was Mr X’s opinion at the time about my son’s comprehension. Basically they had an answer for everything eg it was teacher’s opinion.
So I ended up requesting Subject Access Request (all educational records of my child since Year 1). Have a look at the image attached. My son never had comprehension problems!!!! In fact he scored high average!
My question here on Mumsnet would be - what do I do now? Report the school to Local Authority, Ofsted, Dept of Education? I complained to the Chair of Governors but received a reply with little answers. Mainly he advised to contact LA and was opologetic.
Every time my son has assessments now I ask the teacher Mrs F to email me his results. My son is excelling academically, she said he is mixing with the boys and girls, has a close group of friends which obviously I always knew since I organise playdates, meet with his friends/ parents in the playgrounds. I see how he interacts. You would not even know he has ASD but as I mentioned earlier, lets see how his teenage years go. Maybe that’s when I will see the symptoms.
As of now I need a realistic advice on what can be done to expose / stop the school doing this to another family.
Thank you.

This.

Were you thinking of private secondary for your son? It would sort of make sense of your rejection of your son's diagnosis and EHCP. I know both those things can prejudice decisions.

This! I taught a child with no speech issues but saw a speech therapist weekly due to his asd. It was more communication I believe and not taking things literally

Your son being academically able, doesn't mean that he doesn't have needs!

OP you are in a position ( or were before you lapsed the EHCP anyway) that many parents have to fight for for many years. You've had not one but two assessments for ASD and diagnoses and then you secured a EHCP seemingly with little effort early in your child's school career.
Yet you still seem determined to deny the diagnosis is right based on your limited understanding and stereotypical views on autism and you threw away the EHCP because you thought the school and other children were benefiting from your child's funding.
All I can say is let's just hope that your actions don't damage your child's life chances because you seem determined to throw some pretty big spanner's in the systems put in place to support your child.

Phonics is rules based. My DD used to say "Mummy is it ow brown cow?" as she did her writing. She could get phonic rules. Her reception teacher said "She's so easy to assess! I model something then she brings her one to me!' I said 'Great! Does she ever change the pattern or switch the colours?' 'No.' 'Thought not.'

That's why it gets hard in secondary school. Instead of being taught facts and having direct teacher input in self-directed play, etc., the teaching gets more abstract and the teaching is skills based. Tricky stuff can't be avoided. Children are expected to apply skills across multiple domains and be more self-directed in their learning.

The wheels start to loosen then when they come off it's a car crash.

Especially when this is alongside the increase is social and emotional demands and society becoming less forgiving of ‘quirks’ in teens.

*in, not is.

I already explained earlier that GOSH used term Asperger's probably more to guide us because my son’s case is subtle. Press is using it a lot! I tried to educate myself on this subtle ASD as nothing else written on NHS made sense! I described my son more in my previous reply. Tony Atwood podcasts were eye opening to me. I realised you can be successful CEO, a neurosurgeon or university professor and still be on the spectrum. I looked at these famous Autists and especially how they were as little kids. And yes, I started looking at ASD as maybe it is a superpower! As I mentioned earlier my son doesn’t care about routine, does not have sensory problems, he has friends. And GOSH explained to us that kids like him do fly under the radar unnoticed until they are teenagers. Doctor said they do well academically, have friends and when they are teenagers problems may occur (they may get depressed or will find their special interests more interesting than socialising). My son doesn’t have obsessive interests but we noticed he remembers facts, numbers easily. Eg he was 5 years old when we went to Switzerland. In roughly 2-3 weeks on the way to school he tells me the hight of the mountain in meters. I wrote it down on my phone, went home, found the picture where the board says how high we were (thousands of meters) and he made a mistake on the last number. Is it normal? I don’t think so. Good memory?
When I started doubting whether my son needs an ECHP (Year 2) I called LA. They explained that many schools tell parents to apply for an ECHP. I asked the lady why do the schools do that if actually they have to apply for an ECHP only after they spent £6k on the child. The lady said ‘Because it’s on you then. You think you child is not learning etc’. So to get a top up funding the school has to demonstrate they spent on you more than 6k. The school clearly exaggerated our son’s needs so they get that £3k extra top up funding though my son was receiving S&L once a week only. There was no TA for him until I started questioning how come the school told us he needs one for Math and English and now he doesn’t? I assume the school realised that after all he is learning with the whole class. Hope this explains more.

The LA was talking rubbish. The school do not need to have spent £6k in order to request an EHCNA or for an EHCP to be issued. Unfortunately LAs often given incorrect information.

No-one gets an EHCP just because the school want £3k extra. There has to be actual evidence from the reports undertaken during the EHCNA.

The provision DC receive when they have an EHCP depends on section F, did DS’s specify and quantify 1:1?

But he’s not learning with the whole class. He’s supported with attention from the TA.

It seems you are desperate to believe anyone but the school despite the fact they spend the most time with him.

But other children being friendly with him doesn’t indicate that he is able to form friendships without support.

I think you should take a deep breath and listen to what school is saying about him. his text results at the end of Y2 indicate that he's below standard in reading and writing, and at standard in Maths. None of the test results show him to be exceeding the expected progress. A doctor in an NHS hospital is not the best professional to measure a child’s academic progress. A clinical or educational psychologist can carry out cognitive assessments, which he may well have scored highly on. But thats not the same as how he fares on tests in school. You’re comparing 2 different beasts.

TBH, it sounds like theres a breakdown of relationships between yourself and school. I’ve never come across a parent who wants their child to stop having an EHCP! If a parent came to me and said this is what they wanted for their child I’d be very concerned for that child. EHCPs are incredibly difficult to obtain.

Since I requested Subject Access Request I got emails between staff discussing my son too. This one is sent from SENCO to Year 2 teacher. They are talking about 6k needed to demonstrate eligibility for an ECHP.

Your son didn't fly under the radar for years. You were encouraged to get an EHCP before he even started reception. Even if that was just for speech, he was then given ASD diagnosis at a young age, which you said didn't fit your son. But ASD is such a broad term and what most people think of autism, isn't correct.

The reason the naming have changed for ASD is we're constantly advancing research. Stop thinking of it as a straight line and start thinking of it as a circular spectrum. He might do great one all but comprehension. Or he could be masking a lot of his behaviours (which can cause stress and anxiety)

Your son may not struggle socially (or may not seem to)

I think you're focusing too much of the aspergers is different to ASD in the hopes that he might be some kind of genius or he will function better. They've realised this isn't the case. An ASD kid could be coping great one day and not the next. That's why they even did away away the "high functioning" label.

There's also many different spikey profiles for ASD gifted kids. There's Einstein syndrome, hyperlexia, hypernumeracy and so many more. They are all just neurodivergent people. Some of them are exceptionally gifted but still need support.

You cannot know what the future will be like for your kid. No parent can, not even NT kid parents. What you can do is support them as best you can today. Don't shy away from support because you think they're doing okay. Listen to the multiple professionals who are telling you how they can support your son and let them.

Denying the school funding to have additional adult support, directly or indirectly for your son seems spiteful. Any potential extension work or any other additional needs he presents will now take an adult away from the other children. Everyone misses out and for what end?

The school does not need to have spent £6k to request an EHCNA, nor for an EHCP to be issued. It is a myth, sadly one many, including many schools, believe.

Where does the funding come from?

Sorry if this is naive, but if 12000 doesn't need to be spend (for the specific purpose they are granted for), why is everyone making OP feel guilty for saying so?

The money can go to a child with higher needs at a school which does not need to exaggerate?

The school won’t get the money at all without the ECHP. Therefore they will need to support OP’s son out if their incredibly strained SEN budget and another child will lose out of interventions they might otherwise have had.

Sorry I misread the message but would say it’s really hard to get an ECHP. It’s unlikely he doesn’t need additional support

My sons profile seemed not spiky at all. I think there was some note from GOSH saying his Fluid Reasoning seem too high for his IQ. His IQ was in average range (~100) (he has just turned 6 when they did those assessments). I read somewhere that these assessments are highly verbal. My son was still in Year 1 at that time. But if I compare my son then and now it’s like a different child. Comes across so mature, sensible, confident, speech is developed! I don’t see any masking as of now. Anyway lets finish this debate. Goodnight.

So they diagnosed him by seeing videos of him rocking in his chair, monotone voice, not trying to read between the lines and speech delay? Do you think all this is persistent in your child? Do you think the diagnose may have been incorrect and your child doesn't show any symptoms now? They cannot diagnose based on future predictions when he is a teenager. It can be a language disorder too if it's only speech problems which persists.

It's not difficult for me to believe that people DO lie. I know people working in the medical field as well as education field and politics are always there. So I am surprised that people find it so difficult to believe that one person in the school might have lied to GOSH especially considering the things you mentioned.

Share your concerns with both ofsted with evidence and GOSH so that your child medical records does not contain any inaccurate information. Remember, a school report is just a snapshot in time even if you have reasons to believe that it is a lie (which it can be). If you don't trust the school, please change it and see if the other school also have the same issues or not about your child’s academics. BTW is your son formally diagnosed and did you give consent to the school to share their report? I believe if the education psychologist went to the school, they have had consent?

Since I requested Subject Access Request I got emails between staff discussing my son too. This one is sent from SENCO to Year 2 teacher. They are talking about 6k needed to demonstrate eligibility for an ECHP.

I think you may be misinterpreting this email? It's reads 'for him not to qualify for an EHCP we need to show...'
I think they were trying to help you with your request it was ceased.

This was them trying to prove that they could meet all his needs from the delegates £6000, with no top up, so the EHCP could be concluded - so your don lost out, because they proved they could meet need from delegated, but how no longer legally have to, just use best endeavours- I would move your son, you obviously do trust the school and they will probably be relieved - good luck with your next school, but try and listen to them, not fight them and think they are trying to screw as much money out of your child - there are plenty of children they can focus on.

I don't think the OP is misinterpreted the email, she has replied to a poster who mentioned that the school need not have to spend £6000 to be eligible for EHCP. The school staff is saying that the child for him to not be eligible for ehcp they need to show they can support him with £6k but in the past they had put ehcp in place and got £12k which the OP mentions is exaggerating his needs.

OP - i feel sad for you. Usually to diagnose a child it's important to take parents feedback too. Eg, the child follows instructions at home but the teacher says he doesn't. The reason may be that he is anxious in his school or with his teacher. That's why parents feedback is equally as important before confirming the diagnosis. They should have given working diagnosis and later confirmed it after few years to get a clear picture especially if there is conflicting information between different parties. Please remember, if you as parent feel that the diagnosis is incorrect then it's time to raise a formal complaint and if the teacher has indeed lied then being dishonest is a misconduct and they should definitely be reported.
I am not taking sides, just because I know people from the education amd medical field that doesn't mean I will bu default tale their side. I see a mom in distress who feels she has been failed by the system, she has evidence for it.
A misdiagnosis can be removed and a different school can have a totally different feedback about your son.