Steiner/Waldorf Schools - requesting info from those in the know...

[Rantmum]

...anyone know anything about the Steiner/Waldorf school system, pros and cons (particularly with reference to early years/primary education, but any info is good!. Had not really given them too much consideration but have recently moved and met several mothers who speak highly of the their approach.

Anyway, I am off into the far lands of commercial shopping today and I intend to enjoy it! I then have a mountain of work that I have to do before Monday and I intend to finish it. So long and speak later -

Have a great weekend!

lush-
"you have a fab way of twisting words to suit your agenda."

Twisting words? I wish I was so duplicitous.
I've just put stuff you don't want to hear or like.
I'm not even stating "views"
It's not about that.
It's about very specific points which you continually evade.
It all sounds so Steiner/anthro- particularly the twisting words to suit agendas- (smile) Now - I can't think- who twists words to suit agendas I wonder?- er nope- can't think of any organisation that does that- it's gone.
Have a good shop! (smile) (smile) (smile)

Well you won't shout me down either I've checked out all the links and given it some serious consideration and reviewed with my DH. As his father and sister are both teachers in the mainstream German system we were well aware of the common misgivings. He was also unsurprised to hear that the French were particularly critical - after all Germany and France are not exactly each others biggest fans.

Our school is completely up front about Anthro www.glenaeon.nsw.edu.au/steiner.php and I seriously doubt that my parents had any idea of exactly how much of my education would consist of Catholic religious teachings just because I was going to a Catholic school, let alone the impact that would have on me.

If I'd stuck with conventional medicines approach to complications and premature labour for my 2nd child he would probably have died, so I don't appreciate you sniggering at Alternative medicine one bit. There are plenty of tragic stories on MN and in RL to prove that conventional medicine does not have all the answers and alternative medicine such as herbs and acupuncture and yes even iridology and reflexology etc have been around for much much longer.

I thought that it was an excellent point that Cote has actually had bugger all's experience with Steiner, or any other education facility for that matter by the sounds of things. You sound like you wouldn't take the advice of anyone under any circumstances but here goes anyway: Build A Bridge Lady! I guess I shouldn't ask you what star sign you are or you would probably try to have me committed to a mental instituion .

Aussie- that's interesting- very Steiner-

"after all Germany and France are not exactly each others biggest fans."

Steiner himself says this-

?The use of the French language quite certainly corrupts the soul. The soul acquires nothing more than the possibility of clichés. Those who enthusiastically speak French transfer that to other languages. The French are also ruining what maintains their dead language, namely, their blood. The French are committing the terrible brutality of moving black people to Europe, but it works, in an even worse way, back on France. It has an enormous effect on the blood and the race and contributes considerably toward French decadence. The French as a race are reverting.? [Rudolf Steiner, FACULTY MEETINGS WITH RUDOLF STEINER, pp. 558-559.

From that website you link to.

"Steiner described Anthroposophy as 'a path of knowledge leading from the spiritual in man to the spiritual in the universe' and also as, simply, 'an awareness of one's humanity'.
So- where's the stuff about reincarnation there then?
It just doesn't say much.
, "guided by teachers on a journey of self-discovery and self-realisation "

It's just evasive- it could mean anything- the spiritual in the universe could be expanded on a bit.

I agree to an extent about some alternative medicine- acupncture and herbalism has been proved to work hasn't it? But the cosmic ans astral forces of biodynamic farming, and the etheric body in anthroposophical medicine seems very far fetched imo.

"Easy, you "can do something about it", research web design, cookies, web tracking a bit more and you will find the answers. Google is your buddy!"

Why should I?
I'm using entirly legal, legitimately provided services. I reserve to myself the right to do so.
I give enough time and effort to all this already.

"Google is your buddy!"

So is zyweb: I'll choose my own friends. I can do that since I don't have an Anthroposophical mentor wastching every move I make. Might be odd would be tormentor here and there though.
Davy

Aussie- didn't your parents know about Catholic beliefs before they sent you?

I agree- any religious indoctrinating education- imo- is wrong. I don't think there should be worship in state schools either.
imo- all state education should be secular.

And if I'm looking for an alternative, arts based, liberal school- I would expect them- at the first post- to inform me of their underlying religious content. And Steiner schools don't do that.

Also- lay off cote- she really seems to have ruffled your feathers.

Aussie- you said

"we were well aware of the common misgivings"

What are the common misgivings would you say?

oh I know that isn't how anthroposophy is USED

I was just showing off

This thread isn't really the place, I suppose. I can see feelings are riding a bit high.

Blimey Filly- where are we now? I've lost track.

Showing off? How dare you?

I'm quite enjoying this actually- but yes- it's getting a tad personal.

Some people are ruffling.

yes, there is not much you CAN do with a degree in dead langauges, I have to take my chance while I can...

Its an odd thread this, theres kind of a lot of civil conversation, and I am really finding it interesting to see it from the other side. But some people seem to be getting very upset, and there are obviously some real axes to grind.

I'd love to just sit and watch and learn but I am crap at that, I need to keep chucking in my 2c

Dittany- thanks for that.

It's really my main axe to grind- that there's this massive agenda underneath the natural education they pedal.
If it was a Camphill school- it almost certainly would have been Steiner Waldorf- because Camphill is- and has very anthroposophical roots too.
But it is quite possible to go through all of it quite unaware- that's one of the scary thing really imo.
Although I do think that the education can work- that isn't the point as far as I'm concerned.
It's seems to be upsetting some Steiner people here in a very big way.
They are also shooting themselves in the feet-
because either they really know the full Steiner anthroposophical nonsense, and accept that it's there and believe in it-

or they accept it- don't believe in it but like the education anyway- which I think is absolutely fine if it works for them-

or- they don't really know much- because Steiner is a load of turgid bollocks when it comes to reading it.

So filly- where did you do classics? It's a fine thing to study tho'. You must be very clear minded and well read- well I can tell that anyway...

I know a few classicists who are atheists- what's that about then?

AussiSim - For someone who loathes this 'nasty nasty judgemental' thread, you are getting rather foul-mouthed and insulting. If at all possible, please try to refrain from personal attacks. They don't help your credibility.

I got curious and researched Steiner schools before DD started school there, so yes, thankfully we don't have any experience of what passes for education in day to day Steiner life. We do have the experience of their dishonesty and secretiveness, though, and that is what I have been stating. Up until the point we applied to the school there was no mention of any spirits, communicating with the spiritual realm, reincarnation, vaccination bad/homeopathy good etc.

You have the right to believe whatever you want to & send your children to schools that actually encourage that kind of fuzzy thinking. And I reserve the right to laugh at 'iridology' (heh) because it IS funny. One man's religion is another's belly laugh, after all.

Maybe it is because you grew up with little intellectual challenge and no competition that you can't articulate your thoughts and explain your beliefs without resorting to accusing others of ignorance. I guess there was no Debate Club in your school and you did not get to learn about Logical Fallacies. But hey you did learn to bake, right?

I don't really care if you believe in the garden fairy or read tea leaves. I do thank you though, for having quite perfectly illustrated what happens when a child does not see a rational/scientific approach to the world in her formative years.

I think people tend to get insulting when their back's against the wall Cote.

You found out in a very short space of time- what some people never find out about Steiner waldorf.

You did research, looked at all sides- and decided it wasn't for you.

I had a very interesting conversation soon before we left last May. An anthro Mum- who told me - while buying organic onions- that she had seen a fairy, and a water sprite. Actually seen them. And this woman shared driving my kids to school.
I had nightmares that she would one day swerve to avoid a sprite. And what would she say? "It was the fairy! I didn't want to run it over" And I thought- would they believe her- or us.

She's a good nice woman tho'- forgot to put that.
I still see her- and we like each other.

I fall into the category of accepting the Anthro basis to Steiner schools, thinking it is rather peculiar and outdated but essentially harmless, and being happy with the education on offer.

Incidentally, my db (21) had 14 years at Steiner school, and is an atheist studying Classics. He does not believe in gnomes, or fairies or water sprites. In fact he'd probably go all Indigo and poke me in the eye if I suggested that he did.

Aussiesim - do make sure you keep an eye on the language teaching at your child's school. My son has had over four years of French lessons. He is now 11 and will move to a secondary school in the summer. I knew he didn't enjoy French but I had no idea how little he had learned. He could barely get beyond bonjour and au revoir. And this is a child who was reading The Hobbit when he was five - he's not a stupid boy, by any means. As for the German teaching - their teachers were UTTERLY ineffectual and they have not had any German for about two years now.

Many Steiner schools use the immersion method, whereby the teacher sings and talks to the children entirely in the target language, but does not explain what the words mean. Immersion works for children growing up in bilingual families, but I have really big questions about it as a method of teaching foreign languages.

I would be interested to hear others' experience of language teaching at Steiner Schools, given that it is one of their big selling points.

I should add that his Hobbit reading habit took hold BEFORE he reached Steiner!!

Stripey- thanks for putting that- an open honest answer- it makes a refreshing interlude in thei stale thread.

Aussie- you know that's funny you say that- because when my eldest left Steiner at 11- the one thing she was way ahead in was French. But she had a good teacher.

German- no- very behind- very old fashioned- well- ancient teaching method- at Steiner- and not many songs etc either.
I think- in all reality- it's hard enough to find class teachers for Steiner- given the - dare I say it - extraordinary curriculum and teacher training... it had to be said- sorry [cringe]- I know our school fhad great difficulties finding any teachers- that they have to make do with the specialist subjects like languages

But then the school we were at was one of the poorer examples , from what I gather.

So- also - completely out of interest- if the Steiner system suits you so well- why is he moving to secondary school? Doesn't yours go to age 14/15?

Walk your path in peace then Stripey.
That you have arrived at this position then I'm glad for you.
That you should have had the info available is all I try to achieve.
FWIW, yes, I do miss some aspects, but other aspects outweigh them.
pax vobiscum
Davy

Northern - it's my son who's moving, not Aussiesim's (AFAIKT)

God- I'm losing it- aussie - ignore the last post- it was Janni's.
A lot of the kids at our Steiner were bi-lingual- German- so they were always praised- their books were shown- how well they did-
"But" I used to say - "They're German- -they speak it at home- why are you showing me their book as an example of how good my child could be if they weren't phlegmatic?"

Didn't get through-the fact they could speak the language anyway didn't seem to be an issue. We often had parents evenings that continued along parallel lines of reality.
I found much of Steiner school like that - parallel universe.

nr39 and easeonline - er, thanks! I do honestly believe that I know what I have got into and that its the best choice for us as a family. Mind you its fairly academic, as dd is leaving at Easter as we are going travelling together for a year, so will be HEd anyway.

As far as the language teaching goes, I think it is generally very good, but as has been said before, some schools are better than others. At the school I went to, the language teachers were all native speakers, and the standards were very high. When I left at 14, I was only able to continue French lessons at state secondary (only one language option was timetabled). In two years of lessons, I can honestly say I learned nothing, and I was also sat for the German GCSE with no further teaching. I got A* for both.

I'm sorry- I've had my weekend pinot and am not concentrating.....

What about other subjects? Was he ok with them? My eldest had a fantasically lazy and boring class teacher- he was a disaster.He belittled females in a big way too- eugh!!! Can't bear all that Steiner sexist stuff either. She was so excited when she got to real school- she eventually shot ahead. The Steiner school said- "see- that's what a Steiner base does for your child"