Steiner/Waldorf Schools - requesting info from those in the know...

[Rantmum]

...anyone know anything about the Steiner/Waldorf school system, pros and cons (particularly with reference to early years/primary education, but any info is good!. Had not really given them too much consideration but have recently moved and met several mothers who speak highly of the their approach.

I think what the new says about camphill is very relevant and I agree with much of what she's said. It is quite an intense way to live- but there are some really good things about that sort of community- (except the anthroposophy of course....) There are many house parents and families who live the life very unaware of the anthroposophical roots of Camphill society- and that's quite possible- as it is in the schools- and it can still work to an extent.It's still very much there- in my experience anyway.
Many of the people with learning difficulties find it a rewarding and safe life- living in a family and working on the land or at a craft suits them. There is also another side.
There seem to be plenty of tensions- with all that that brings- and there seems to be a conflict between great freedoms- finacial etc, and great restrictions- the responsibility.

barking- yes. Your fab links.This is meant in a jokey way- but I think the others are getting a bit heated.

Ooh- sorry if I'm sounding a bit cross lush- don't mean it. Maybe your school just ignores the weird stuff? Is that it do you think? Does none of the reincarnation stuff, or temperaments etc ever crop up?

Do they have those meetings for parents about how to make cleaning a joyful spiritual experience?
That kind of stuff?

"anthroposophy means study of man"

But that isn't what it IS.

Anthropology is the study or man.

Anthroposophy is a spiritual philosophy based on the teachings of Rudolf Steiner, which states that anyone who "conscientiously cultivates sense-free thinking" can attain experience of and insights into the spiritual world.

anthroposophy-
"Greek roots anthropos, human, and sophia, wisdom"

-that's the meaning and derivation of the word- but Steiner didn't actually mean it as that. He origionally believed theoposy- which means divine wisdom I think- so in order to break away and form his own -um- religion/science/ whatever- he called his anthroposophy- because he thought it was all real and scientific. He believed the spirit worl exists , and clairvoyance etc- so he rather rashly said it was a science.

dittany- have you had any experience of steiner school? Or know anyone at one? You said-

"I certainly had no idea that Steiner schools had an esoteric philosophy that informed their operation - I'd have been one of those people who thought the home-spun natural ethos was very appealing. Not so much now though."

because it seems some schools aren't as anthroposophically heavy as others- or don't appear to be anyway.

Cote

What experience have you had with the Steiner Education other than our buddy Google?

My experience.

What a nasty nasty judgemental and ignorant thread this is turning into.

I have been personally attacked and accused of all kinds of rubbish. No one has responded to my comments comparing the catholic education system.

If I sent DS1 to the local mainstream school he would be learning from his peers how to impersonate ninja turtles, spiderman, batman, superman a-la-suvival-of-the-fittest and from his teachers he would be treated like a lab rat pushing him to read and write in a highly competitive environment.

IME of "our" steiner school the Anthro is quite muted. We love him learning about nature, and the seasons and baking and cooking and even watery painting. The final year results for this school are in the top 10% of the state plus he will come out tri-lingual. IMO this beats handsdown any mainstream offering.

On the topic of conventional vs alternative medecine I could go on and on but my time is far too precious to waste on an ignoramus such CoteDAzur.

Oh dear Aussie- I couldn't agree more.
You said-

"What a nasty nasty judgemental and ignorant thread this is turning into"

".but my time is far too precious to waste on an ignoramus such CoteDAzur."

As soon as factual truths are put in writing- rather than discuss them- the insults start flying.....

I didn't reply to the Catholic stuff- the Cathlics don't try to hide the fact that they believe in the resurrection, virgin birth etc. They don't pretend to be giving one education- and then when you've been there a while- in the words of one prospectus for Steiner- do you realise it's actually a completely different nest of ants.

All my point has been- the whole way through this thread- is that Steiner Waldorf give the impression that they are about a natural, arty, whole child education- and they hide the anthroposophical reincarnation,side.

The schools are obviously sometimes very good- like yours sounds.

None of the people here who are at Steiner schools , have addressed this. It's been easily confirmed that
a) anthroposophy informs the curriculum and most choices and decisions about the children.
b)Anthroposophy isn't mentioned openly in any of the literature, websites- you have to really ,really search for it.

I hope I haven't been nasty or judgmental- I've been called a few names by others. I agree- I've been insistent in trying to get points accross.

I do think Steiner's ideas are mad and far-fetched. But if you're happy with that as a background for education- and it produces the results - then that's fine.

I think, probably- the mad stuff doesn't surface until a problem arises- like bullying, left handedness, clash with class teacher etc. And as some Steiner people earlier on in the thread mentioned- the only thing to do then is get out.
There's no need to be angry- if you're happy, good luck, and I hope it really works for you.

Aussi - I guess non-Steiner people are just not enlightened enough, what can you do?

Best to fly away to your rainbow watercolor spirit world where patterns on an iris gives insight into the condition of organs and there are no heathen non-believers to question your bizarro 'alternative' treatments that don't work if you don't believe in them

I did answer the Catholic school comparison, by the way, even before you made it (contacted the spirit world and predicted your question, heh):

By CoteDAzur on Tue 15-Jan-08 15:47:20

"the real issue here - namely, that the school has hidden its religious/spiritual/whatever background and agenda from me and other parents who visited it. It has been dishonest about its curriculum (never mentioned morning prayer), vague about its methods (never mentioned aversion to vaccinations, medicine, etc), and did not say a word about the underlying religious doctrine.

This is the difference between Steiner schools and "any religious school". A Catholic school is called 'Catholic'. Even if you miss the hint, they tell you that your child will be expected to say a prayer or two, participate in Christian celebrations, etc."

"Steiner has many critics but at the end of the day it is your life and if you choose to learn about anthroplogy and give a huge part of yourself over to caring for children with special needs then you deserve respect and encouragemet."

Agreed. What I don't get yet though is just what I did after seven years to find myself squeezed out. Other than ask uncomfortable questions.
Community? What does that actually mean? In Anthroposophical terms, it means far, far more than village gatherings, it means Anthroposophy so far as the centre you are looking at focuses on.
If you are looking at full-time, especially if accommodation comes with it, I share newgirl's urging to find out ALL you can- but that DOES mean checking out the down-
side too.
Getting in is one thing, getting out is something else.
Davy

Cote- do you get the feeling that people don't want to take on board what's being said ?
This thread is repeating without the salient points being discussed.

Davy- I completely agree- Camphill's idea of community - shared envioronment and interests- will nearly always include anthroposophy- or else the idea of community in a general sense , is negated. Camphill is founded in anthroposophy.

So prospective newcomers have been urged to do their own research, but not to listen to anything critical. We have also been told that Steiner can be interpreted as meaning anything you want it to be, so, presumably you aint supposed to read Steiner and make your own evaluation, just take the local Anthro line and swallow it hook line and sinker.
Don't ask awkward questions. That means that you aren't a team player (never mind what other contribitions or efforts you throw into it- question the party line and you are done for)
We should not take too seriously the avuncular, charmingly but slightly batty people at the helm.
Who then, do we suppose form the 'informing' power house that dictates just how 'suitably' informed we are, and how much pressure to apply in order to make you compliant with 'the community. Dare I mention the 'Spiritual Guardianship' aspects of such peoples' position?
We are assured by several contributors that 'my Steiner School isn't like that'
Isn't like what? Oh, we are assured that Anthroposophy is mentioned, but other than that just what the hell is that supposed to mean to a newcomer? Do your own reasearch, but only do so at anthro-friendly sources.
Anything else is 'ill-informed, angry' and other things offered at www.easeonline.org/language.htm. In general terms, when Anthroposophy wants your opinion it will give it to you. That's 'community' in Anthrospeak terminology.
Be careful what you wish for, it might come true. Whether you really want it or not.
Davy

....So prospective newcomers have been urged to do their own research, but not to listen to anything critical....

If you were to see it from the other side of the coin, have another flick through fugees rants. And, a poster said many pages back that they didn't feel easy with you. I tend to agree.....

You are on your own agenda and I want to know why;

1/ You posted a link to your website about education and claiming you are not seeking commercial gain etc. Yet in my temp files, you had just uploaded it, why?
2/ You don't tell your viewers that a cookie will be installed on their machine from your site and you are tracking your website, why?

And to answer your quote from above If I am making a decision about something crucial like education, applying for a mortgage, buying a car etc Then Yes I will do my own research and not just take it from one side.
After all isn't that what you are doing?

Oh and Cote

OK so your personal experience extends to a couple of open days and an hours interview with the school. You then research the rest of it via the internet & the rantings of a couple of dissatisfied parents from a forum....And you feel that you are qualified enough to speak about the Steiner education?

What galls me is that you allege that we are allowing our children to be indoctrinated by some hidden agenda(?)...please! What is this hidden agenda? And how have they managed to blend this agenda so that the parents are so dumb that they don?t see it but you managed to see it within 1 day and then by Googling it as well?

Cote, what?s even worse, you chastise/belittle any parent who has chosen that path (coming from someone who has had roughly about 1 days personal experience) Whilst I do understand that it took you a day or so to find that spiritual development and daily verses/poems/prayers were part and parcel of the education and as an atheist, you were not comfortable with that. I have to say that the information is there on your website that you provided.

Heres something for you...

What if I don't like the current free system that is on offer to us and I don't feel other private education is that different?
What if I have a slight bent towards spiritual intervention?
What if I know my children well enough and I can see that what is on offer for free will not work with my children because I know them well enough?
What if I have done enough research and I like what is on offer?
What if I did my own research before choosing Steiner???.
Are you saying that I have to follow your way because you have interpreted it as so with about 24 hours personal experience and a couple of days Googling and not reading your prospectus properly??? And, assuming I and others were to follow your opinion, would that not make you some kind of potential cult leader?

No Siree, I want have chosen this education so that my children can enjoy and learn at their own pace during their childhood/education and I have yet to experience the banning of black crayons, devils speaking from TV, I had a past life, my other mummy from another life, my pictures are about angels & my other life et al. Remember, I interact with my children and the school on a daily basis and I know my children very well. Please don't tell me how a Steiner School works when I have enough more personal insight/knowledge than you.

And don't forget opinions are like buttholes... everyone has one!

In fact I feel you are trolling and I can't make up my mind asto whether you are a Contrarian Troll or a Sophist Troll. I think I will dwell on this a bit more.

Nah I don't think there is any trolling.

An agenda, yes - and possibly an unhealthy obsession with how other people choose to educate their children.

Hi lush- I like the new name you've given me- may keep it.
My posts may have the impression of being "rants"
"-A rant is not a speech or text a well-researched and calm argument; rather, it is typically an attack on an idea, a person or an institution, and very often lacks proven claims."
You surely couldn't say I haven't done my research? Goodness- I thought you're geting at me for over researching and coming up with stuff that sounds too far fetched.

But I have substatiated every claim made on here about Steiner Waldorf - I agree I'm not always calm- and it may seem like an attack to you- but then - if you put yourself so much on the defensive by not answering simple statements- it can come accross as an attack.

Actually- I've often said there are good things about the steiner system- you've chosen to ignore those bits.

Cote may not have the experience in years- she was smart enough to realise at the beginning.

But I've had a collective 9 years'ish experience of Steiner Waldorf.

"What is this hidden agenda? And how have they managed to blend this agenda so that the parents are so dumb that they don?t see it"

But lush- I thought you knew everthing about anthroposophy?
I thought you were so well informed before you went- unlike the rest of us?
I thought you were castigating us for not finding out fully about the education we were about to embark on?
I don't understand- you're really confusing me now......

The "hidden agenda" is that the central core of Steiner education is informed by anthroposophy.

"not reading your prospectus properly??"

But lush- it's not in the propectus- we've established that ages ago.

It's not on the websites either.
Sometimes it's there invery very small insignificant places- but says nothing really anyway.

So then Cote researches it- like you said- and comes up with stuff you either don't like- or don't know yourself.?

The french government says it's a cult too- not just cote.

No-one has sugested you "follow" anyone else's way, have they now that's just ranting.....

"Please don't tell me how a Steiner School works when I have enough more personal insight/knowledge than you."

lush- I agree with Cote- I have big time experience- and other people who have come on this thread too.

The trouble is- many people are "lurking" as they say- because if we don't put what you want to hear about Steiner- you try to shout them down.
Well - you won't shout me down

1/ You posted a link to your website about education and claiming you are not seeking commercial gain etc. Yet in my temp files, you had just uploaded it, why?

The page was first uploaded February 2006.
Any change, correction,etc necessitates unpublishing then republishing-even if it is a minor, one minute correction.

2/ You don't tell your viewers that a cookie will be installed on their machine from your site and you are tracking your website, why?

Nothing I can do about that. The webtracker, and indeed the whole website is a third party provision, and, so far as I'm aware, they are the sources of cookies.
What info do you think these give me?
What do you think my agenda is?
Davy

Nah I don't think there is any trolling.

Thanks Stripey, that's appreciated.

An agenda, yes - and possibly an unhealthy obsession with how other people choose to educate their children.

Matters of opinion, of what each of us finds significant or not.

davy

Trolling had crossed my mind too- philotrolls perhaps.

"you chastise/belittle any parent who has chosen that path"

I think that's been coming from both sides actually- you do get very angry when things are said about the Steiner system that don't fit in with your picture.

" I want have chosen this education so that my children can enjoy and learn at their own pace during their childhood/education and I have yet to experience the banning of black crayons, devils speaking from TV, I had a past life, my other mummy from another life, my pictures are about angels & my other life et al. Remember, I interact with my children and the school on a daily basis and I know my children very well"

But they don't teach these things to the children do they? It just informs the education- it's very clear on that- anthroposophic ideas are never actually introduced to the children- or the parents unless it's appropriate- because Steiner schools see the teacher as more important than the parents, don't they?
Gosh- I thought you knew all this lush....

My word- why on earth do people have such suspicions of people trying to have an open dicussion about the anthroposophical root of Steiner?
You'd think there was something hidden-
something hard to grasp,
something never really touched upon at the schools,
something that just is there- but no-one really knows what it's about.

"And to answer your quote from above If I am making a decision about something crucial like education, applying for a mortgage, buying a car etc Then Yes I will do my own research and not just take it from one side.
After all isn't that what you are doing?"

Indeed, so we agree then? Look at various viewpoints?
Davy

...Well - you won't shout me down...

Fugee - RLOL - you have a fab way of twisting words to suit your agenda. Suffice to say I have my views and you have yours.

....Nothing I can do about that. The webtracker, and indeed the whole website is a third party provision, and, so far as I'm aware, they are the sources of cookies....

Easy, you "can do something about it", research web design, cookies, web tracking a bit more and you will find the answers. Google is your buddy!