Steiner/Waldorf Schools - requesting info from those in the know...

[Rantmum]

...anyone know anything about the Steiner/Waldorf school system, pros and cons (particularly with reference to early years/primary education, but any info is good!. Had not really given them too much consideration but have recently moved and met several mothers who speak highly of the their approach.

Stripey- do you think lush and thenew will fess up too?
Then it'll all be over.

"Fess up"?

I'm sure thats what I've been saying all along - or have I inadvertantly fessed up to something else?

When does this language immersion start in Steiner schools? In the kindergarted we looked at, there was no talk of learning languages.

I was slightly worried that the teacher was Dutch and had a conspicuous foreign accent in French. I did wonder if it was a good idea for DD to be taught in French by a foreigner.

Class One is when language 'teaching' starts (though dd has learnt a couple of french rhymes at KG). Til Class Five (iirc) its 'taught' through songs, games etc, but then it does become formal teaching. Both French and German were taught very thoroughly at the school I was at, with grammar and extensive vocabulary introduced in Class Five.

Stripey- I wasn't sure you'd taken on board the anthro stuff in it's full glory- gnomes and all. The others don't seem to acknowledge the reincarnation and eurythmy being about connecting to spirit worlds etc

They start languages in class 1- when they leave kindy at 7'ish.

Well, I have conspicuously not 'taken it on board', in that I think most of it is peculiar and outdated.

But I know its there, and I know what its about, and I have decided that it is harmless enough, and has given rise to an educational system that suits our needs and lifestyle better than what the state system has to offer.

To paraphrase (badly as I am well down my bottle of red) George Bush, I believe that humans and Anthroposophy can coexist peacefully.

Well- yes- it's certainly that.

Yoy know- if things had been different for us- we would probably be in the same place as you.
At the risk of re iterating the past 9 pages- the good stuff at Steiner can be good- music- knowledge of all those myths and stories etc.
I do think it's terribly rigid- no room for any manouver, and I don't think it's creative enough.
But if there is an exceptionally inspiring teacher- then the sitting in rows, listening and copying from the board obviously works. That could create a kind of calm discipline too, I suppose- so different from the snippets of tv, computer and photocopied stuff state school kids are often used to.This was what we hoped for when we went down the Steiner road.
What we got instead was this muddled occult,spiritual stuff lurking as reasons for all their decisions.
Bush again-" I have opinions, strong opinions- but I don't always agree with them"
It's really misguided, in my view, to hide the spiritual science and reincarnation side- lays them open.

....But if there is an exceptionally inspiring teacher- then the sitting in rows, listening and copying from the board obviously works. That could create a kind of calm discipline too, I suppose- so different from the snippets of tv, computer and photocopied stuff state school kids are often used to.This was what we hoped for when we went down the Steiner road.....

And the truth will set you free - Fugee that is why I am struggling to understand you. Both of our main teachers are excellent, experienced and do their job properly. They do inspire our children and if you look back 5 pages, I did say this about my youngest son. And don't forget to inform any prospective parent that little children have to work this photocopied gubbins out by themselves and if they are only 5 and they don't know how to read, it will delay them even more, so effectively they have to know how to read, compute and understand the work presented to them before 5. So the children who have been pushed by mummy - excel, the children who are just learning - either get it or don't, and the children who have never cared to learn will be at a major disadvantage. And they are only five years old at this stage.

Fugee, I don't doubt for a moment that you have had a bad time and I have heard that there are some bad examples of Steiner,(same as any school system) it is just so unlucky that you came across one. I do feel for you. (I am sure we would have got on very well if we were at the same school )

However I do feel I ought to correct you on a couple of your myths (will have to spend a couple of hours and I will slot this in the next couple of days) but the main one being:

The children leave kindergarten at 6 going into their 7th year not at 7(ish) as you say. So all children who are going to be 7 from September - August will be in class 1.
This means that they have had two extra years on the state ed child and as I said earlier I know this has helped my ds2 without question.

Lush- how good to have you back.

"Fugee, I don't doubt for a moment that you have had a bad time and I have heard that there are some bad examples of Steiner,(same as any school system) it is just so unlucky that you came across one."

One poor Steiner School? You mean we found the ONLY one? Even this thread points to many more- I love your perceptive selection- it is so Steiner!
"However I do feel I ought to correct you on a couple of your myths""

The children leave kindergarten at 6 going into their 7th year not at 7(ish) as you say. So all children who are going to be 7 from September - August will be in class 1"

This is also typical of a Steiner devotee- of course- you're right - no- one else is.
At the school where my kids went- the school anthroposophical doctor assessed them as to whether they were ready to move to class !. There was much dicussion with the kidy teacher- it wasn't taken lightly. This happens at most of the Steiner schools I have had friends at. I don't think there's a hard and fast rule as in the state system. There were kids where we were who didn't move up 'til they were 7.
Lush- it's to do with the milk teeth coming in - remember?

Very much looking forward to your couple of hours of research about Rudi.
Rudiful.

"Fugee that is why I am struggling to understand you. Both of our main teachers are excellent, experienced and do their job properly"

Lush- if Steiner teachers are doing their job properly- as Steiner teachers- they are helping the children to reincarnate.

Steiner teachers "proper" job is a sacred task.The kids are empty vessels for them- to help on their way to the next incarnation, and move humanity to a higher plane.

We just wanted a regular alternative arts based school- we weren't happy with the occult science and karma- it guided the teachers to make choices and decisions about our children, based on the ravings- often contradictary, of a slightly mad guru. The schools are named after him- and presumably- the people who go there - follow his teachings- rather like a cult.

It's going to take you more than a couple of hours to research all this isn't it? If you're to get both sides, I mean...

It's a shame that in order to get a good alternative to the state system people have to send their kids to a school where the underpinning philosophy is absolutely bloody bonkers.

Well said Loveangel.

There are so many people who are attracted to Steiner school for what it ISN'T.

And boy- do they play on that bigtime- like not saying anything about the anthroposophic core in any promotional literature- or even when asked in interview.

I've yet to be convinced by Lush, Thenewgirl and Aussiemum- that they are upfront about it- because they haven't provided any concrete evidence of this- just the usual "head, heart, hands" stuff.
Mostly things said are-"we don't have any weird stuff in our school" in the same breath as- "we know all about the anthroposophical stuff" . Very contradictary, very confusing.

Lunch is burning, got to go.

Fugee, you have just dismissed what I have said upthread and have chosen to ignore it....How very sly....

I will repeat it if you like:

.....And don't forget to inform any prospective parent that little children have to work this photocopied gubbins out by themselves and if they are only 5 and they don't know how to read, it will delay them even more, so effectively they have to know how to read, compute and understand the work presented to them before 5. So the children who have been pushed by mummy - excel, the children who are just learning - either get it or don't, and the children who have never cared to learn will be at a major disadvantage. And they are only five years old at this stage.......

What if I didn't like that format? Do I put and shut up because it works for the masses and my children will either excel (the higher section graded A or the square table), be working within their age group (the average section graded B or the star or circle table) or will be a lost cause and continue to struggle with worksheets and maybe the teacher or her helper will spare some time to give him some direction (the lower section graded C and below or the triangle table). And, when it comes to parents evening I will be told that I will have to do more work with them at home if they are struggling to get into the next grade?
Heres the rub, if I wanted to teach them at home, I would have done it - A teachers job is to teach, surely?

Also I said:

....Fugee, I don't doubt for a moment that you have had a bad time and I have heard that there are some bad examples of Steiner,(same as any school system) it is just so unlucky that you came across one. I do feel for you. (I am sure we would have got on very well if we were at the same school )....

What I meant was that it was unfortunate of you to come across a bad Steiner school. But as usual you are twisting words to suit your campaign.

In fact I was amazed at the pure nastiness that you and Cote showed to Aussie & thenew when you rounded on them and twisted their words to make them feel like they were the ignorant ones and you were the holy molys on a crusade. (bad trolling by both of you tut tut!) I really hope they come back but fear they may now be lurking (not in a bad sense of course) because of the attacks. One only has to look back at Cotes condesending posts to see she was the worst poster when it came to turning nasty. I can understand it coming from you but not from someone who knows jack about the system but claims to be an authority on the subject. As the old saying goes - Beware the half wise are everywhere.

Get a grip and clam calm down.

Will speak later as I have work to do!

Dittany - I start you off and you can follow on from there:

The bits that were specifically condesencing were -
"Let's go over this slooowwwwlyyy:"
"Is that clear?"
"If not, re-read the above as many times as necessary."

and all said to a Steiner parent.

Full post can be found - By CoteDAzur on Wed 16-Jan-08 21:11:55

Definitely weird racist views....

Dittany - She has twisted words to suit her campaign and the very fact that you are refusing to see that only leads me to believe that you are either a secondary login or you are attempting to start a flame war.

Funny how a number of newbie names have suddenly turned up - and all of them are so in your I mean their camp?

I'm not a newbie. Check my profile. I think I actually responded to this thread much earlier on (?) or at least, to another thread in the last few months about Steiner schools on MN.

I had a dreadful experience with a Steiner school in north London - can't believe I nearly sent my son there .
Having done some more research, I have come to the conclusion that the philosophy underpinning Steiner education is absolutely barking fecking mad, and more worryingly, has some deeply sinister racist elements. Not only that, but in my experience the schools deliberately conceal key elements of their philosophy and mislead parents.

It's fine to disagree with me. It's fine to passionately defend Steiner, if you believe in it. But it's not fine to discredit people who disagree with you by calling us trolls. It's not a valid argument, and just makes you look a bit 'Tom Cruise'.

Ah, right, well - do a search on my (prolific) posting and you will see I've been around over a year and am fairly open about my views on most things! Certainly not a troll.