Naughty, disruptive boys

[DuglyFugly]

Is it common to have so many very disruptive, naughty boys who show off about how brilliant / genius / superior they are while being incredibly puerile, disruptive and out of control? I have a ds and a dd. Before anyone accuses me, ds is 11 and has always been a bit quiet as is dd. They both focus and do their best in the classroom but are not the super stars.
in my dd's year 4 class the boys are mean, rude, disruptive, some of them are very academic and others not much. The common theme is that so many are so full of themselves and so very silly. Is this common in classrooms? Is it different at private school? Not that we could afford it but I'm so fed up with these kids disrupting the learning for well behaved kids. I am not talking about SEN, just general lack of respect, being spoilt at home and being very disruptive.

Try quoting the whole thing rather than a selected sentence taken out of the surrounding context.

I have a Y9 class at the moment where some of the girls are horrendous. It still doesn’t change the fact that as a very general sort of rule with numerous exceptions, boys tend to be more troublesome than girls

the above is actually the opposite of a facile generalisation. I am not talking about my personal experiences of teaching boys but I am talking about trends that are backed up by statistics. And as you can see, I haven’t said one negative thing about my personal experience teaching boys

However, since you believe I am not ‘debating civilly’ do feel free to report to MNHQ.

again, the science says that in general people do parent their boys differently from their girls. They may not be aware of it and not all parents do it but over and over again in research, right from babyhood, adults treat children differently according to which gender they are told or perceive them to be.

I don't for one second believe boys are 'born that way'. I think it might be as simple as lack of physical exercise, kids are driven to school or have a short walk, and don't play out anymore as there are too many cars so they have a short walk or drive home then play the xbox for hours. Most of the boys under 12 I know spend at least 2 hours a day gaming. There must be so much pent-up energy and lack of opportunity to socialise in person so they let off steam in the classroom.

I know I’ve read the articles. It doesn’t make sense to me though. Why any parent would excuse bad behaviour by saying it’s because he’s a boy?

Why are you assuming boys need physical activity more than girls do?

The schooling system was designed and created by men hundreds of years ago before women were even allowed to attend. Obviously things have somewhat changed over time, but it was not created by and designed for women.

To reiterate, it's not just being silly and disruptive it's macho behaviour of putting other children down to be 'top dog'. The trouble is the more quiet kids have no choice, they are forced to grin and bear it. It's particularly annoying in our situation where the boys are from very privileged homes. It's the noisy showing off and impeding on other kids learning space and learning opportunities that grates.

You really should speak to the school again. There are a few aspects of what you are saying that could be addressed. The being clever and then bored thing for example. The teacher should be giving this pupil extra work, and not allowing them to disrupt the lesson. This happens to my dd as well, she is bilingual and finishes the assignments in this language quickly. In order to prevent her then chatting and joking about, she gets given extra sheets to do.

@manysummersago Children are just people. Some parents bring up boys badly, some parents bring up girls badly. That manifests in the classroom. I’m not sure why you’re so invested in the narrative that more boys are bad than girls, but I respect that that is your opinion. Maybe you could look into the gathering of data that informs the stats - it would be interesting in itself. I’m happy to say that I must have been exceptionally lucky to have experienced a genuine mix of good and bad behaviour from the sexes and I hope it’ll always be that way.

This school doesn’t sound great if moving seats or classes aren't options because there are disruptive boys in every single class.

Yes, bragging is very irritating but some people brag. We all have to put up with people like this throughout our lives so learning techniques to deal with them is useful. Telling your child how rubbish they are however (which you didn't mention in your OP) is horrible and harmful and if you’ve told the school about this, it shouldn’t still be happening.

What you describe is definitely (IME) not a normal school environment. Far from it but perhaps we were just very fortunate with schools. My children certainly encountered boastful acquaintances and badly disciplined children but we taught them how to deal with other pupils. If anything had escalated to verging on bullying behaviour, we’d have moved them to a different class or school. We were close to this at one point but things worked themselves out in the end.

Bewilderbeest, how do you explain the vast majority of the prison population being male? Is that an issue with how the data is collected that informs the stats?

I’m not particularly invested in it, tbh, @Bewilderbeest . I’m just pointing out that everyone insisting that actually girls are worse are wrong, statistically, and this continues into adulthood.

We all have to put up with people like this throughout our lives so learning techniques to deal with them is useful.

I agree and always try to teach my kids to manage it, tough it out or explore thing they can say or do, I am not in the habit of running to school to micro manage even little problem, in fact it's the opposite. I actually think it's damaging to wrap your dc in cotton wool and shield them from difficult people. They need to learn to recognise what works and doesn't but ultimately, my dd is in school to learn, she meeting some target but not all. I feel frustrated that a lack of basic respect and manners is preventing dd from focusing fully on her work. having to mange loud boisterous behaviour from 9-3 is exhausting and takes energy and focus from actually learning. grrrrr.

*manage

Many parents expect their boys to play roughly. When DS’s school banned rough play as it always ended in tears and someone getting hurt (even if it started off friendly) a number of parents were outraged and complained.

Interestingly, when I was a parent volunteer for one class they had a session of exercise in the class on the morning I helped. There were a number of children who refused to take part, mainly boys and these were the boys whose parents complained that their children didn’t get enough time to let off steam and not be sat at a desk all the time

With respect to more males in prison, is this partly down to the sort of crimes committed, and they are more likely to have been involved in violent crimes. There might be more women with community service orders

I am a teacher with excellent behaviour management skills. I get asked to teach the challenging classes, year in, year out. I manage behaviour through a mix of high expectations, a relevant curriculum, tailoring teaching to meet the needs of individual learners and careful differentiation. This is what most teachers do, of course. I'm no ogre; I like a dynamic, 'buzzing' learning environment where engagement and on-task behaviour is high and disruptive or disengaged behaviour is zero.
Behaviour management is just that though; you're anticipating and managing the behaviour of individuals in a group. And more often than not, the individuals who feature on my radar of 'most inclined to disrupt the learning of other pupils' are boys. Definitely a majority of boys. And occasionally, the odd girl. I don't include pupils with SEN in this category, just pupils who, unless constantly and tiresomely anticipated and managed, will interrupt others, call out, ignore instructions, chat, swing on chairs, mess around with equipment and generally cause low to medium level disruption.
Like a PP said, I am able to report to parents that their child's behaviour is not a cause for concern in school. But that's because it is subject to constant anticipation and management. Half of the time, these pupils, who are mostly boys, don't even consider their own behaviour disruptive. It's often just slightly self-absorbed, lacking in selfawareness or ability and inclination to read the room, a bit arrogant and contact seeking. The boys themselves are usually lovely, yet are still learning to operate successfully in a group. There is an expectation that just cracking on with it needs special recognition and reward. But it takes a lot of management, is tiresome and hard work.
If parents could see how close to the wind their DC sail in school, how boundaries are incessantly tested and how tirelessly teachers work to manage the behaviour of some pupils, I think many would blanch.

I think the main issue is not so much whether the boys are more disruptive than the girls, but that parents and adults in general are much more tolerant and accepting of poor behaviour. The boys act up because they can and because there are few sanctions for doing so. Primary classrooms can be quite noisy places. Children work on group tables. You can guarantee that if the teacher was harsh with this student the parents would be complaining that he no longer enjoyed school and was being picked on

@EveSix I think many parents really don’t get how disruptive and time consuming low level disruption is in a classroom, and they moan when their child gets told off

@noblegiraffe I find people quoting prison stats on a thread about children pretty disturbing. It’s almost as though people think “future abuser” when they look at a little boy, which would be appalling.

I find that both parents and teachers generally let the boys get away with more. Properly disciplined children (as long as there are no developmental problems such as ADHD, ASD, etc.) will behave in class. Girls are told off sooner for being loud and disruptive because it's just not accepted of them.

Although, as this thread proves there are exceptions.

Pretending that something isn’t a fact doesn’t stop it being so.

Some of these replies are so bizarre they are almost funny. The OP has started a thread about boys causing disruption in school. This is backed up by almost every statistic you can find.

However, some have taken almost personal offence on behalf of their son and set out determinedly to prove the OP wrong, largely by regaling her with stories about awful girls but also by just sticking their fingers in their ears and insisting that everything we know from society - that there are more men than women in prison, there are more boys than girls excluded, there are more boys than girls in custody - is just wrong and people are looking at boys and thinking they are offenders.

Most children behave well most of the time. A minority do not. Out of that minority, more will be boys than girls.

Do we really need to keep saying NABALT?

@EveSix 👏you sound like an ace teacher. Thank you 💝

I think there is something in this. My 4yo boy currently attends a nursery setting where he has access to a large garden and they do forest school activities in the woods next to the nursery most afternoons. The nursery staff describe him as 'extremely active', but say that he always cooperates, generally listens very well, follows the rules and is kind and considerate to other children, especially the younger ones. I am hoping that the lack of physical activity and freedom next year at school won't have too much of an effect on his behaviour and that we can make up for it by doing plenty of activities out of school. State primaries aren't particularly good for active children, whether boys or girls. We could benefit from having more age-appropriate expectations of little children.

Having said that, there is a big difference between little 4/5 year olds who struggle with sitting still and listening to the teacher and the sexist, violent, entitled behaviour that unfortunately does seem to characterise some boys from upper primary through secondary school and which makes the lives of many teenage girls a misery.

It's also important to recognise that many of the qualities which are socially instilled in girls from very young - compliance, consideration for others, rule-following, politeness, not putting themselves forward, being 'nice' - may work against them in professional environments later on in life. Many women may be more competent and productive than their male colleagues, but they are often less confident, stay out of the spotlight, don't push for promotion and don't ask for pay rises. And yes, I think a large part of that is because we do let boys push girls out and take over the space from quite a young age, partly because it is often more obvious with boys as a group when their needs aren't being met.

Girls are told off sooner for being loud and disruptive because it's just not accepted of them.

I agree. We don't seem to like girls being confident and opinionated ('bolshy'), even if these are qualities which will help them succeed later on in life.

What a bizarre response.

I'm asking how you explain that the vast majority of the prison population are male. If it's not to do with their behaviour, then what?

Then work backwards and look at the population of PRUs - majority male. If it's not to do with their behaviour, then what?

Similarly, looking at school exclusions data - majority male. If it's not to do with their behaviour, then what?

You are insisting that boys and girls are equally disruptive. If you are asserting that's the case, your assertion doesn't explain the stats, so what do you think is going on?