Naughty, disruptive boys

[DuglyFugly]

Is it common to have so many very disruptive, naughty boys who show off about how brilliant / genius / superior they are while being incredibly puerile, disruptive and out of control? I have a ds and a dd. Before anyone accuses me, ds is 11 and has always been a bit quiet as is dd. They both focus and do their best in the classroom but are not the super stars.
in my dd's year 4 class the boys are mean, rude, disruptive, some of them are very academic and others not much. The common theme is that so many are so full of themselves and so very silly. Is this common in classrooms? Is it different at private school? Not that we could afford it but I'm so fed up with these kids disrupting the learning for well behaved kids. I am not talking about SEN, just general lack of respect, being spoilt at home and being very disruptive.

I find this hard as mine is a quiet hard working boy and the teacher tends to lump him in with the boys in that ‘the boys have not been concentrating today’ etc which I think has been bad for his confidence

I agree with this too because in my mind boy/male culture is such that the majority of well behaved boys (and girls) get overlooked by the boys that jostle to the top, in terms of attention or bad behaviour.

My own DS is quiet but in his school life it was definitely negatively affected by boys trying to rule/disrupt the class.

I can only go on my own experience having retired after 35 year in Primary teaching. Looking back, one of the best behaved classes I ever taught had 7 boys and 23 girls. The worst behaved? That class had 6 girls and 21 boys.

@DuglyFugly why is it only boys in your post? And why blaim the parents? Children might behave very differently at home compared to school.

Maybe it's down to the education system?
Having young children (4-8y) to sit down and concentrate for 4+ hours a day in an overcrowded classroom can be challenging for someone who is more outgoing and lively then the quieter study type personality.

Surely the problem is that the school only caterers for the latter and labeling the others as naughty.

There isn’t much physical activity in state schools at primary level which I think can be hard for more boisterous kids.

I agree. My DS is cooperative and kind but needs a good couple of hours running around every day. His behaviour deteriorates without it.

@Instantnoodles

Mine isn't a particularly physical child and has really good concentration levels but even in reception seemed to do endless colouring and worksheets. When I was in reception it seemed to be more free play and I remember a water table etc. I think it would help some children if learning was more active. It requires less imagination to print sheets off twinkl though.

In our school the vast majority of disruptions come from boys not girls, but it's interesting to read that some have a different experience, which is exactly why I started this thread, I would like to know what it's like in other schools. I know the parents of some of the boys rather well as they've all been at nursery together and it's a small community. I've seen how some of the boys I'm referring to are being pandered to and bigged up, it's not about not sitting still it's about actively being rude to the other children in class, telling them they're less intelligent, making loud noises to get a laugh from their mates, not just chatting though that can be distracting too but behaving like the classroom boss and being almost aggressively competitive (intentionally pushing smaller girls and boys out of the way in PE). A couple of these boys say that girls are useless at maths, they say this to girls who are actually struggling so it's really unkind. Farting and burping jokes in class, every day.

I agree with the lack of physical activity comments. Is it that too much time is spent sitting still playing games and letting off steam at school? Some of the worst behaved boys in class are actually physically violent, yes they're being dealt with but it happens again and again.

Name changed but I'm OP.

There isn’t much physical activity in state schools at primary level which I think can be hard for more boisterous kids.

Perhaps single sex primary schools are the way to go but then there will be a minority in each group that suffers.

I'm a huge advocate of single sex education at primary level. My confidence benefitted from it enormously and my DC are at an all boys school which is tailored to boys. There have been no behavioural issues of note at all - am also not aware of any in the other years. There is a LOT of physical activity. It's such a shame - imho - that there isn't more choice in this regard in the state sector - i know others will vehemently disagree with everything I've said but this is my opinion based on my experience.

My DD noticed this when she moved to secondary school. She has always seen boys and girls as the same and there was bad behaviour from both sexes at primary. When she moved to secondary she was shocked that the disruptive behaviour was largely from the boys. She knows a couple of boys in her year who aren't disruptive, bit she says the rest all are. In contrast, she says it's a small minority of girls who behave badly.
I keep reassuring her most of the boys will grow out of it, but sadly many won't.
I don't think that denying that boys behaviour is worse than girls is helping. Unless we accept it, we can't look for the underlying cause and tackle it. It is in the boys best interests that we help support them in school and it is in everyone's best interest that we help them (and all children) become decent, respectful human beings.

I think there are some sections of society that seem to create these boys. They are entitled, active, sporty types who think they can do whatever they like regardless of consequences.

I’ve left toddler groups because of similar. A few boys were allowed to charge around, ruining it for the other kids with no discipline. Their mums actually perpetuate their awful behaviour.

Some of the problems in respect of boys’ behaviour comes from home. The phrase ‘boys will be boys’ was heard quite frequently from parents of boisterous/disruptive boys whilst we chatted in the playground at drop off/pick up. When they were going to do various topics there were parents moaning that the topics weren’t for boys. Boys don’t like writing etc. It used to drive me nuts. I have a DS, and I hate the phrase ‘boys will be boys’ especially when a parent said it to me after her son had punched mine!

Some of their behaviour/talk can also come from their X-box games etc, which they possibly have more exposure to at that age than girls. Again parents can have an influence on this.

Parents of boys need to take a hard look at themselves and think about how they influence their son’s behaviour. Again with some of the parents in my son’s class they knew it was inevitable that their boys would end up in front of the HT at some point, and seemed proud of them that their visit was quite early on in YR. Whereas I would have been mortified.

In DS’s class some of the girls’ behaviour was also an issue, some low level disruption and many friendship issues, but from the outsider looking in probably not so obvious until there were tears.

When I was at primary school, most children walked to school. Our walk was about 25 minutes. So we had already expended a good chunk of energy before we arrived. But the situation described is concerning - I was thinking of the thread earlier in the week about badly behaved parents at a zoo. Guess what they were like at school.

That is what I’m wondering. How do you know?

The solution to your problem doesn’t lie in asking the question here. It lies in either speaking to your children’s teachers (or the Head), advising your children not to be distracted by other children (and simply ignoring their annoying bragging) or moving them to a different class or school.

I've been a secondary school teacher and leader for twenty years (a pretty decent one too, with great behaviour management). Of course it's mostly boys that disrupt and are rude - as a PP said, it's mostly men who are disruptive and rude in adult life.

Yes, yes, Not All Men and yes, Some Women Too, but we all know from looking at the crime statistics and the news (and, you know, using our eyes and ears) that selfish, self-entitled, aggressive, confrontational behaviours overwhelmingly come from blokes. This doesn't just happen with a flick of the switch on their eighteenth birthday - rude, selfish men were rude, selfish boys first.

All the shit that women routinely experience in the workplace - mansplaining, hogging conversation, delegating the drudgework tasks to females, claiming credit for work done by females, openly perepetuating ideas about female value lying in physical attractiveness, sexual harassment - you don't think this is a problem in secondary classrooms?

I have a DS and a DD of my own. I sent DD to an all-girls school for exactly this reason.

I’m always intrigued by posters who say there is no SEN involved when talking about other children. How do they know?

It's not a socio-economic thing either, some of the kids have very well off parents.
Yet another lazy stereotype. Only the poor kids are allowed to be naughty aye? I’m spotting a trend with the OPs views.

Boys and girls learn in different ways. This isn’t every boy and every girl. My boy isn’t a ‘typical boy’ but most are. If learning was more targeted towards those boys maybe there would be less behavioural problems? girls love being active too so maybe it would help. Currently we expect 4 year olds to sit and do worksheets / colouring for long chunks of time.

Exactly @BasicBiscuit and it’s bizarre how many people are falling over backwards to not “get” it

Most sex offenders are male. Does it upset non-sex offending men when they hear this or do they just realise that no one is talking about them? Do we need to reference Myra Hindley and Rose West every single time we talk about men who murder children, because you know, women do it too

I have a Y9 class at the moment where some of the girls are horrendous. It still doesn’t change the fact that as a very general sort of rule with numerous exceptions, boys tend to be more troublesome than girls.

it’s bizarre how many people are falling over backwards to not “get” it

I wonder what the motivation is? Do women have this urge to present everyone as equal so as not to appear sexist?

It’s hard if you have sons and they are being vilified. But as a mother of a son I know as parents we need to do our upmost to prevent him from being part of the problem

It's all relative- why are girls parents so quick to stop them charging around in toddlers groups? Why do boys parents let them charge? I imagine boys are more disruptive in class and let away with it because there's an expectation that they will. And more girls end up crying in the bathrooms and at break because there's an expectation that girls relationships are bitchy and catty. All you can do is stay in your own lane, manage your own prejudice and advocate for your child.

For me, I am tired of my boys being judged against the general perception of boys. I want to raise respectful, well-behaved boys - both me and my DH teach them not to manspread, to never touch someone without consent, to cross the road if walking behind a woman at night, to challenge other men, to let others in class speak and to wait their turn.

The biggest challenge my boys face in terms of behaviour is the way society judges them based on preconceptions not their behaviour, they disliked being called 'rough' by people who had never met them. The sexist preconceptions play their part in the poor outcomes we have in our society, luckily not on mine but in general.

I agree most crime, and especially sexual crimes are committed by men, and I would never say NAMALT, but I feel like it is important that we try to show boys that NABALT - to help them see an alternative model for themselves?

That sounds like a teacher issue.

there's a bit of research about this....I go to look