Naughty, disruptive boys

[DuglyFugly]

Is it common to have so many very disruptive, naughty boys who show off about how brilliant / genius / superior they are while being incredibly puerile, disruptive and out of control? I have a ds and a dd. Before anyone accuses me, ds is 11 and has always been a bit quiet as is dd. They both focus and do their best in the classroom but are not the super stars.
in my dd's year 4 class the boys are mean, rude, disruptive, some of them are very academic and others not much. The common theme is that so many are so full of themselves and so very silly. Is this common in classrooms? Is it different at private school? Not that we could afford it but I'm so fed up with these kids disrupting the learning for well behaved kids. I am not talking about SEN, just general lack of respect, being spoilt at home and being very disruptive.

My DD was badly bullied in primary, the girls in her class were generally very unpleasant, thought they were wonderful and the quieter girls just stayed in the background. The boys in her class were supportive and kind. The school had trouble with these girls from reception to year 6, they tried swapping kids with the other class but it just doubled the trouble.

Kids vary, classes vary.

@manysummersago How many years have you been teaching and in what kinds of schools? I have been a teacher for 10 years in mixed and single sex schools, state and private. Boys and girls are equally disruptive. One girl I taught threatened to “do you all up the arse with a strap-on”. That said, some boys are not challenged on their behaviour because of low expectations. Some girls are not pushed to do well in certain subjects for the same reason.

My DDs life would have been even worse at primary school if she hadn't had some lovely boys to back her up when she was physically assaulted by girls. She had the opportunity to go to a very highly rated girls secondary school, she said she wouldn't go but she'd happily go to the boys school.

www.parents.com/toddlers-preschoolers/development/behavioral/what-science-really-says-about-boys-and-girls/

www.mamamia.com.au/treating-baby-boys-and-girls-differently/

even the pitch of their cries
www.sussex.ac.uk/broadcast/read/35272

OP, this is a behaviour management problem. You need to get on to the school and ask them what they’re doing to ensure all the kids can learn. Explain the impact on your dc, and insist they start challenging unacceptable comments and behaviour. They must have “school values” - quote these back at them. Similarly, equality of the sexes would come under “fundamental British values”. Ask them how these values are integrated into their behaviour policy.

The problem is mainly with the teachers I think. When I started secondary school in the early 90's there was a handful of very disruptive boys in my class, our entire first year consisted of our whole class constantly being "on report" or whole class detentions. Several of our teachers would either run from the classroom in tears every lesson or would just sit there literally doing nothing all lesson as they'd given up trying. A whole year it took before the trouble makers were seperated and placed into different classes and the rest of us could finally start receiving some sort of education.

I know this because my kids tell me . Also I am in the classroom once a week as I help with reading. Why is how I know this your focus in regard to the thread? We have spoken to the teachers repeatedly, my kids get on with their work. Would you be able to focus on your work if you sat next to someone who talks incessantly, telling you how rubbish you are and how big their brain is, how genius they are, bossing you around and telling you 10+ times to pass them the glue stick, farts / pretend farts, burbs then laughs and winds you up when you say please don't do that. Why should my well behaved kid have to miss out on learning and put up with this?

Moving to a different class is no good as there are so many disruptive boys as well. It's why I asked how this pans out in other schools. It's depressing to hear that it's all too common.

@DuglyFugly I’m sorry the school are being useless but it really isn’t true that “boys are disruptive”. I could tell you things about disruptive girls that would horrify you.

That might be your experience @Bewilderbeest but to be honest it isn’t one backed up by the stats. I have a Y9 group at the moment where the problems are all caused by girls but that doesn’t mean it’s a general trend, any more than Myra Hindley suddenly means women have a propensity to murder and commit sex offences against children.

I’ve been teaching since 2003. I did my PGCE the year before and I remember writing an essay on this subject then - so twenty years ago. Boys are not achieving as well as girls across the board, white working class boys are a focus in many schools for targeting underachievement and serious behaviour problems (leading to exclusions - both fixed term and permanent) are overwhelmingly likely to be received by boys.

None of this means that girls are saints or that girls never misbehave so I am finding it a bit strange people are going out of their way to prove the OP wrong by listing examples of poor behaviour by girls. It’s also depressing that we have to state every single time that we know NABALT. I have a son: I am not outraged on his behalf that some boys behave badly. I know that boys are as individual as girls - but that doesn’t mean there are not general trends and inclinations.

It’s also a bit depressing that people seem to think they absolutely must show the OP how wrong she is by talking about how terrible and awful girls are.

NAGALT either.

but are the white boy problems not caused by parenting and not gender?

The boys were always the most badly behaved and disruptive when I was at school as well, I guess school just mimics society in which men are the most violent, antisocial and aggressive out of the two sexes.

I think the problem is behaviour expectations on boys are generally much lower than girls, girls get pulled up about a lot about things boys are allowed or even in some cases encourage to do, girls are continually told they mature faster than boys to justify the difference in expectations.

If a boy is labelled as confident a girl is labelled as bossy, if a girl is rude a boy is cheeky, if a girl is naughty a boy is boisterous, if a girl is disruptive a boy is just lively and energetic etc. Unfortunately, mothers and other women seem to perpetuate this the most.

the implication that boys are born this way as opposed to taught is where I take issue.

society allows and grooms boys to become men who either stand by and watch while women are harassed or creates men who harass/rape/murder.

it isn’t inevitable though - and that’s the issue I have. Plenty of boys turn into decent men. Suggesting otherwise is lazy and defeatist.

@manysummersago I speak as I find: neither sex has a monopoly on acting like idiots. I’m sorry that you have had such negative experiences of teaching boys. I’m currently teaching in an all-boys school and it’s tremendous fun.

I have no idea @godmum56 but given the focus is white working class boys and not white working classes as a whole it probably indicates gender is a contributory factor. I also think it’s a bit unpleasant to heavily imply working class = poor parenting.

Oh go on, indulge me. Where have I said I have a negative experience teaching boys? Do quote me.

@Believeitornot Absolutely this. Social conditioning is very powerful and as a mum of a baby boy it really depresses me that people will look at him and assume he’s trouble because he’s male. It seems from this thread that even teachers are not immune to lazy stereotyping of boys as bad.

The majority of boys were a delight but at the same time the majority of troublesome kids who took up so much time were boys

the point is that boys and girls are different - generally speaking. Of course there are quiet boys and disruptive girls, but there are patterns.

But what is often not accepted is that primary schools are set up for girls, and most teachers are female. I wonder if there is the same level of disruption with forest schools and schools where the kids can spend a lot of time outdoors.

I also think it’s a bit unpleasant to heavily imply working class = poor parenting

It's very lazy stereotyping, as it's usually the yummy mummy middle class types who are entitled and think they and theirs can do what they like (which is also lazy stereotyping!)

I agree. I have a son and a daughter and they display similar behaviours and also different ones. Funnily enough the typical boy/girl behaviour comes from YouTube/social media etc - they weren’t born that way!

@manysummersago “Boys are more troublesome than girls”. Your own words.

If you want to have a civil debate, then have at it, but if you make facile generalisations you can expect to be challenged on them.

I don’t agree that people parent their boys different from their girls. I teach my boys as I would teach them if I have a girl. Good manners, respecting other people and being kind. I can’t see how any parent wouldn’t teach their boys those qualities.

I agree

but the science says repeatedly that at birth they are not....and that dfferences are made by how children are parented.

I agree. I don't know why it's a surprise that a school environment that favours girls' learning styles leads to better behaviour from girls than boys. They should have physical activity every day. Therein lies the issue.