Naughty, disruptive boys

[DuglyFugly]

Is it common to have so many very disruptive, naughty boys who show off about how brilliant / genius / superior they are while being incredibly puerile, disruptive and out of control? I have a ds and a dd. Before anyone accuses me, ds is 11 and has always been a bit quiet as is dd. They both focus and do their best in the classroom but are not the super stars.
in my dd's year 4 class the boys are mean, rude, disruptive, some of them are very academic and others not much. The common theme is that so many are so full of themselves and so very silly. Is this common in classrooms? Is it different at private school? Not that we could afford it but I'm so fed up with these kids disrupting the learning for well behaved kids. I am not talking about SEN, just general lack of respect, being spoilt at home and being very disruptive.

I find these messages difficult to respond to because the tone is so sexist.

Sometimes there are disruptive boys, sometimes disruptive girls, sometimes both, sometimes you get lucky.

Speak to the school about your concerns.

Boys do have a propensity to be more disruptive.

And I say this as someone with a very non-disruptive son.

DD moved to an all girls’ school this year, and she has commented on how much less disrupted the classes are.

Of course, teachers are responsible for keeping classes under control, but they are not super-human.

As a PP has said, you get disruptive boys and disruptive girls, and it's a bit of a lottery as to what you get in your class. In DS's class it was a girl who kept throwing DS's jumper out of the window and ripping pages out of his books. 🤷‍♂️

I work in a school. There are disruptive boys and girls. In some year groups it might be more boys, in some it’s the girls.

I hate stereotypes, and “boys are silly/ disruptive” is a lazy stereotype.

Of course not all boys are disruptive, I have a boy who is not boisterous at all. It's actually these boys in dd's who are sexist in how they treat the girls and very silly and naughty with no respect for the teachers, the girls or any of the more quiet boys. They make silly sounds in class (not due to SEN! Just to be funny and silly) and seem to compete for who is the most daring or funny.

Both my kids' years are very boy heavy roughly 1/3 girls and 2/3 boys, dd is in Y4 and ds in Y6.

I wondered if there are any classroom dynamics where the majority of the kids actually engaged with their learning.

Our school is offset outstanding and the behaviour reminds me of a circus sometimes. There is just no respect toward the school. It's not a socio-economic thing either, some of the kids have very well off parents. It's like they are over confident and immature. Maybe it's an after effect of lockdown. But it really sucks. One of the most annoying boys in dd's class is very high achieving as he likes to tell everyone that he's a genius and his parents tell him he is the best in the whole school😂but then he spends most of the lesson annoying the other kids when they're trying to finish their work. Very frustrating.

People have a propensity to label boys negatively...

People have a propensity to label boys negatively
I disagree, boys get away much more with disruptive behaviour in the classroom. It's the usual 'boys will be boys' myth. When girls disrupt, they get pulled up much more. Not the usual chatting with you table partner, which is also very annoying, but girls don't get away with show off, overly silly and disobedient behaviour like boys do.

To those who think it's boys and girls who are equally disruptive, I respect your view. So regardless of sex/gender, is there more disruption in the classroom now? More silly and nonsensical behaviour?

Things are worse post-covid I think, in all age groups (including adults!).

Bear in mind mental health is worse in all age groups.

I'm not sure about 'silly and nonsensical' behaviour, you seem quite dismissive. My DS had a very difficult boy in his class, but the behaviour was not nonsensical - the boy had problems.

Previously (meaning when I was younger) people could truant more easily, be excluded more easily. I truanted myself when I couldn't be bothered with school, with no comeback. So I think a lot of it is people are in the classroom who previously would have been left to fail.

You need to speak to the school. It may be they just have a weak/boring teacher this year, it may be something more serious.

Can’t help you.
Our daughter was at a school for girls, some of whom were disruptive. Our son was quiet and studious.

How do you know so much about what happens in the classroom and the behaviour of other children?

It’s not a Boy problem, it’s a Behaviour Management problem, so ask the school to address it on those grounds. It might be exacerbated by the last 2 years of limited school for most children, there’s a definite immaturity at my school in all year groups(although behaviour management is excellent, we’ve had to a lot more work on it than we would usually do). They just haven’t had the experience of sitting quietly and interacting with peers and it’s more noticeable the further up the school you go. A child who missed out the more formal atmosphere of Yr3 and 4 will now be in Yr5 and still acting like a Yr2!

So regardless of sex/gender, is there more disruption in the classroom now? More silly and nonsensical behaviour?

No. Kids have always, and will always, be kids. This debate was happening when I was at school 20-30 years ago, as to whether kids were getting worse. Every generation thinks this about children and forgets what it was like when they were at school.

Wrt to single sex schools, DS went to an all boys school partly because the behaviour management at the mixed secondaries was pretty awful. I’m sure they had their fair share of silly and disruptive boys but the ethos of the school discouraged that for the benefit of all pupils.

I work with excluded older children and we do get far more boys than girls because their "trauma" does tend to manifest itself in disruptive or violent behaviour whereas girls will self harm and withdraw (ie don't cause anyone else any trouble).

You can't possibly know what's behind the behaviour though, to be able to say it's all down to nasty boys and poor parenting. IME if you did, you'd weep, not judge.

People have a propensity to label boys negatively

As an ex teacher I disagree. On my course and with teachers I have known, there was always a preference for teaching boys, who were considered more straightforward rather than catty and manipulative like girls. Bullying by boys was and is considered to be more honest, less underhand and therefore less damaging than bullying by girls despite the fact that physical bullying always has a psychological element to it.

There was also a lot of effort put into keeping boys engaged and in the “star of the week” if a naughty boy put in a modicum of effort he would be rewarded with the star rather than the other girls and boys who behaved well every week.

The majority of boys were a delight but at the same time the majority of troublesome kids who took up so much time were boys.

If you adopt a stereotype then you’ll just see behaviour that reinforces that very stereotype.

I wonder if this is a bit a teacher problem? Sounds like the teacher doesnt have them under control in the classroom.

I have a boisterous loud boy who always tries to one up his friends. They dare each other to be loud and annoying and rude sometimes. Teachers always say its not a problem at all during class. Hes good in school and quiet and participates. This changes during break time where they arent under teachers control. For a while they had to change with the teacher for sports because they couldnt be left alone 🙄 but no issues whatsoever when a teacher was around.

i worked as a teacher before i had kids and it was usually not a problem. There are a few kids where nothing works at all but usually its maybe one per class or so. The rest of the loud kids are not disruptive while superwised.

It is never great to read so much stereotyping from a teacher.

DS13 gets in terrible with a particular teacher at his school as they have a zero talking roue in classes and for some reason in one subject he always does, so he rightly gets pulled up for it. He says girls rarely get pulled up on it. At DS16 previous school there were girls who frequently doesn't lessons throwing things/pulling each others weaves off and nothing happened. Niece went to a massive 3k all girls devil and days both were frequent occurrences, but school must have dealt with.

I've had 3 teens between them go to 4 different schools of quite different demographics. Girls ALWAYS slip under the radar for behaviour compared to boys. Definitely get pulled up on it less.

However all the occurrences of drugs/knives that have occurred have been boys.

I don't actually think it's a sex thing at all, and is more a result of lockdown. Kids missed huge amounts of socialisation in those times, and no idea what their being at home alternative was. My hat goes off to any teacher having to try and rein these kids back in.

I have a boisterous loud boy who always tries to one up his friends. They dare each other to be loud and annoying and rude sometimes. Teachers always say its not a problem at all during class. Hes good in school and quiet and participates. This changes during break time where they arent under teachers control. For a while they had to change with the teacher for sports because they couldnt be left alone 🙄 but no issues whatsoever when a teacher was around.

This is demonstrating the problem. It’s hugely unfair to other children when break time is dominated, missed or curtailed because of this sort of behaviour. Only yesterday my dd ended up with no running around time (tried, but was consistently bashed into, hard, until she stopped and stood at the side) and a shorter break, because of behaviour you might call loud and annoying, but which the TA supervising break saw as dangerous.

While there are some issues with girls, the majority of issues in her year come from boys. And the school tries to cater to them, to prevent this, but that means she never gets a class reading book with a girls as a main character, for example, as they need to keep the boys engaged and believe they won’t be unless the main character is a boy.

It may be different in other years and other school, but this is her experience.

It is never great to read so much stereotyping from a teacher.

The stereotyping came from other teachers, not me. I always strive to treat children as individuals but I am not naive enough to think that we live in a world where boys and girls are treated in the same way.

Like I said, the majority of boys were a delight, but it was objectively true that the disruption in class was more likely to be caused by boys. Of course there were some awful girls but I’m talking about tendencies not absolutes.

My dd’s school is like this, it is a shame and I struggle to avoid stereotyping as it does always seem to be the boys whose behaviour is out of control. There are a few disruptive girls but the boys’ behaviour is appalling and it isn’t a teacher or Covid problem (although yes even worse since Covid), they’ve been like it since F2 (96 kids in the year, the class remixing never helps).

There are a couple of ringleaders per class who egg the others on. My dd has completely given up trying to learn anything now (she is y6 and just counting down the days til she can leave). We have an excellent mixed comprehensive on our doorstep but she has chosen to go to an all girls’ secondary, despite the risk of being amongst all the “catty and manipulative” girls, simply because she refuses to go through another year with boys in the classroom.

The latest this term has been sexual harassment by a few boys which the school has stamped on very hard and there have been suspensions. A large % of the boys for some reason seem to watch a lot more adult material, both violent and sexual, and with their parents knowledge and consent, than the girls. I do not understand why this is the case, but again this has been the case since and I am sure it is causing some of the problems. Some of the boys were enjoying saying some very disturbing things to the girls recently and dd came home full of questions about oral sex and rape. Some of the girls were very upset by it; my dd just said, “the boys are idiots, there isn’t a single one who isn’t.”

i find it depressing and I’ve given up telling dd that not all boys are like this because she just tells me “you’re not in my school mummy, they are all the same”. She gets on well with her (male) cousins and has recently been thriving in a new friendship with the worst of the boy troublemakers in her class, who she says has a lot of problems at home and is calmer now with the girls (now he has learned not to harass them with lewd comments). But I think it is too late to change her impression and All Girls Secondary, here we come.

And the school tries to cater to them, to prevent this, but that means she never gets a class reading book with a girls as a main character, for example, as they need to keep the boys engaged and believe they won’t be unless the main character is a boy.

This is 100% true. The idea that boys will not be interested in stories about girls or anything considered “girly” is sadly so prevalent and lasts into adulthood.

I remember once I was teaching symmetry to younger kids and had planned the simple activity of making butterflies. I was told by my mentor that this would not work because “boys would not be want to waste their time with something so girly”.

What a ridiculous comment to make! Fortunately she was wrong and the class went well but it demonstrates the kind of attitude seen in teaching.

Lol at these poor stereotypes of naughty boys.

Have a look at the split of sexes in PRUS. Google how many boys are permanently excluded compared to girls. Even the number of fixed term exclusions (suspensions.)

We all know NABALT. It doesn’t mean it isn’t broadly true that boys behaviour tends to be worse than girls as a whole.

Does this shock anyone? Doesn’t it continue into adult life? Aren’t men the ones who overwhelmingly commit violent crimes - murder, sexual assault, GBH? Yes, I know women sometimes do. I also know more men do.

But carry on telling the OP she’s wrong (she isn’t.)

I find this hard as mine is a quiet hard working boy and the teacher tends to lump him in with the boys in that ‘the boys have not been concentrating today’ etc which I think has been bad for his confidence. He says things like girls are better than boys and the girls are more sensible so he already has an awareness of this. There isn’t much physical activity in state schools at primary level which I think can be hard for more boisterous kids.

I would say though that the worst behaviour in my secondary school class was definitely girls.