Wondering if I should take my Dd out of her private school?

[cleocleo24]

Just had quite an upsetting parents evening with dd7 teacher. She said that my dd has some gaps in phonics and maths but nothing concerning and more to do with so much time off school with lockdowns. She's getting group support in these areas. Fine. We will continue to do all we can to help her at home.

However, she said that my dd doesn't seem to like herself very much and doesn't think she's very good at things. She really lacks confidence. She used the word heartbreaking. When I mentioned it to dd she says she sometimes cries when she feels she can't do her work. A while ago she said to be so and so is really good at everything and hers everything quickly and right. She doesn't. We had a good talk about doing her best and not worrying about others and how people are good at different things.

We have sent her to quite an academic private school. Ds thrives there but I have wondered how dd would get on there. Generally she is happy at school and the teacher seems excellent. As it's smaller classes etc she is getting 1-1 and group support much more than she would probably get in a bigger class. I personally think she has the ability but she lacks confidence and can be very defiant when she decides she can't /won't do something. I feel really upset by this.

I am wondering if this isn't the right school for her and as she moves to Year 3 her confidence will be further impacted as the works gets harder, they are setted and a new intake comes in who have set exams to get there. Or if we can just work with school to boost her confidence and provide more support at home.

I was also wondering about getting her a tutor. Not so much for academic reasons but more to boost her confidence by having some 1-1 support and filling in those gaps. Maybe this is a better option as moving schools might be quite drastic.

I am torn though as I don't want her confidence to slip further and there are other private schools in our area that are known to be less academic.

What should I do?

I don't see how a tutor sitting to do more work with her will give her more confidence myself. Maaaaaaybe they would if they're really nice and very skilled. But I think it's more likely to make her feel like she does need more help and reinforce that thinking.

I think a tutor at seven merely adds more pressure . She is very little, she shouldn’t be measuring herself academically against others at this age, she should be playing and having fun. It does sound as though it is the wrong environment for her, and digging her heels in shows that she isn’t happy. My younger dd can be stubborn and refuse to engage with things when underneath she is worried and stressed , I think this is a common reaction to anxiety about performance.
Her happiness is the most important thing, then she will naturally find the things that interest her. If she is unhappy and feels as though her academic ability is a measure of her as a person, then this can be a lifelong insecurity and cause major issues later when she does GCSEs etc.
Academic excellence isn’t everything by any means. Even in the job market, you are more likely to get a job if you are likeable, personable etc. Shifting the focus onto things that she genuinely enjoys, letting her be a little girl without all this pressure, reading for pleasure together etc, all much more important.

@Reluctantadult

I don't see how a tutor sitting to do more work with her will give her more confidence myself. Maaaaaaybe they would if they're really nice and very skilled. But I think it's more likely to make her feel like she does need more help and reinforce that thinking.

I would be careful how it was worded. At the moment she's actually very into learning and wants to do homework at school and extra things. She likes learning with me and enjoys it when she feels comfortable she can do it. As soon as she thinks it's going to be hard she backs away and gets upset and refuses to do it.

I just think especially with Maths if she has someone who teaches her the fundamentals and her phonics then the rest will follow once those have clicked. The home schooling was quite poor, especially in reception and I think she has basically missed out on the foundations which she can then build upon. I am hoping if she gets those she will be away without any further help.

If her confidence keeps being eroded at school she might loose the motivation and enjoyment of learning she has at the moment which will make it worse.

@SirVixofVixHall

I think a tutor at seven merely adds more pressure . She is very little, she shouldn’t be measuring herself academically against others at this age, she should be playing and having fun. It does sound as though it is the wrong environment for her, and digging her heels in shows that she isn’t happy. My younger dd can be stubborn and refuse to engage with things when underneath she is worried and stressed , I think this is a common reaction to anxiety about performance. Her happiness is the most important thing, then she will naturally find the things that interest her. If she is unhappy and feels as though her academic ability is a measure of her as a person, then this can be a lifelong insecurity and cause major issues later when she does GCSEs etc. Academic excellence isn’t everything by any means. Even in the job market, you are more likely to get a job if you are likeable, personable etc. Shifting the focus onto things that she genuinely enjoys, letting her be a little girl without all this pressure, reading for pleasure together etc, all much more important.

Yes. You are right and I want to install that in her snd will strive to do so.

She picked up on others academic success not us. She's pretty intuitive for a 7 year old. We have never compared or talked about others in that way. We are fortunate with Ds that he doesn't seem to compare himself in that way and is quite secure in his own ability- he's no means the best of the best. I want her to be the same in whatever ability she is.

@Meltedwellie

It might be worth you looking up some information on autism in girls. I'm not saying your daughter has this but it can present in a much quieter, subtler way with girls, almost internalised.

I agree. My daughter is very similar to how you've described your dd and is now on the waiting list for an ASD assessment. Strong sense of right and wrong, overwhelm, rigidity of opinions, internalising feelings of inadequacy, low self esteem etc all very much symptoms of autism in girls, it's just they mask it so much better than boys that it can be completely overlooked.

There's a good checklist here if you want an indication of whether it's a possibility or not:

www.staffordshire.gov.uk/Education/Access-to-learning/Graduated-response-toolkit/School-toolkit/Communication-and-interaction/Social-communication-autism/SEN-support-in-school/Autism-in-Girls-checklist.pdf

Hard to tell but dd3 struggled with friendships through lower school. Had no real friends in her class and just 2 in the other class.
Moved schools on year 5 and the novelty of being the new girl and just leaving the old behind meant she developed a much wider friendship base.

I have picked out the line in your OP where she says... so and so is really good at everything and hers everything quickly and right. Does this mean 'hears' everything? I would also query processing issues?

It might be worth having an educational psychologist assess her.

Also look critically at the school... especially higher up... do you see kids that don't fit, being managed out - the step change at year 3 plus this checkpoint coming at this point in the year would make me wonder whether there is an unconscious strategy at play here?

Do you see stereotype behaviour being entrenched? Boys being praised for being fast, good at Maths, girls being praised for being kind, being studious but being overlooked in other areas.. who does well at the school? Do they really support all kids or do they favour, even if unconsciously, certain types?

Op, you mentioned that she had started Rainbows but it got disrupted due to lockdown. Nearly all Rainbow and Brownie groups are back meeting now, so perhaps she could go back and try again? If she is nervous, you might be able to stay for the first session. Im a rainbow and brownie leader and its amazing to see how the confidence and self esteem of the girls grow as they settle in.

What learning support is she getting in school? What is on offer? My DC were at a similarly academic independent school at that age- there was full LS provision and about a third of children had extra sessions. Has anything been said about something similar? Is the provision there if she needs it?

I wouldn't rush to make any big changes, especially given the amount of upheaval over the last few years.

Stop focusing on her academics and start focusing on her social emotional learning instead. She’s doing okay at school, she’s not particularly worse than any of the other kids who had to be disrupted due to Covid. And the school have a plan for that.

However, she is struggling socially, so your entire focus needs to be on boosting her socially, including posting her confidence. I recommend joining one of the social groups, depending what’s in your area: for example Beavers or brownies.

I also recommend that you look into things where she can try something new, meet new people. At all times, with you present to support her. If you’re a religious family, then go to the church service that has lots of children’s groups attached to it. If she’s shown any interest whatsoever in any sport whatsoever, sign her up for a few trial sessions as a club. If she really really really likes art, then go to art lessons together, or a crafting group, or sit down and do the Olaf falafel YouTube episodes together.

The really important thing is going to be you making the time to do it with her, and talking to her, and generally showing you believe in her. she will slowly grow in confidence.

I would only move her schools if there is a bigger issue at school, such as bullying. It would be incredibly disruptive for her, and at the moment she is with teachers who know her well and are trying to help her.

'Unfortunately I think she does feel that way. He can be quite mean to her about what she doesn't know compared to him and puts her down a bit. We stamp that out immediately but I am going to have a chat with him.'

And this, I guess, may be the root of the problem. He is bullying her repeatedly at home and causing her anxiety and lack of confidence. If you have noticed it, believe me, he must be doing it a lot when you are not present.

You obviously have Not stamped it out.

Until you have confidence in his behaviour and she has consequently improved her confidence you must be sure you don't ever leave him alone with her. You need to have serious words with him and then again in front of her so she knows you have her back.

I guess that you should be a lot more concerned about how you are parenting your son.

I don’t buy that she’s behind in maths age 7 in a private school due to covid. They repeat the maths a lot at that age. The school should be able to teach across all levels. The teacher is telling you she is going over work. Not sure what a tutor will be doing differently. From what you have said your daughter needs to be in a place where she can find her thing at her own pace. If she is lower set at 7 (is that a thing?) why will that change? Maybe elsewhere she will be more in the middle and academic success will only be one measure to judge her by

You’ve had some great suggestions hear but personally I think she’s very young with a disrupted education I would focus for now on time with you. five Minute mum books have some great phonics games sit on the floor with her before tea play a game with or without the older one make her laugh be silly with the games enjoy the quality time this will do wonders for her confidence little bit at a time this with the schools extra group time should be enough for now. I would look at tutoring for the future good ones often have a waiting list (ask school to recommend one) I would also hold off on more social groups until her confidence improves this will give her the self confidence once she tries to make new friends and tries new things at school, which hopefully will make her more successful. Her being happy and confident in herself is absolutely the priority outsource something like cleaning or ironing if your short on time or do something easy for tea parenting is the hardest job but it’s a long road keep in mind private schools are usually way above national average tell her you want her to try her best and that’s always good enough. And ask for her brothers help explain to him that she needs to practice there sibling relationship is a great safe way to “practice “ friendship good luck try to not worry too much she will pick up on the stress!

In terms of out of school activities, our local authority runs a Saturday music school which allows children from early years and up to try out different instruments, take part in choirs, take part in drama groups. Is there anything like that near you?

Both my DDs participated and got a lot of enjoyment. In fact DD1 stayed on as an assistant once she was too old to actually participate.

The children came from many different schools. There was structure but it was far less formal than compulsory lessons focused on achieving grades.

I would focus on building her confidence in other ways than academics. My DD is a bit older but has had confidence issues. We worked with an early intervention children's mental health worker last year and the focus was very much on building confidence through age appropriate independence, building resilience through her understanding it is ok to fail (including modelling this) etc. Her teacher has also focused on building confidence for example by encouraging her to join the school council.

Outside clubs have also been good, the loss of those really affected her routine.

@Newgirls

I don’t buy that she’s behind in maths age 7 in a private school due to covid. They repeat the maths a lot at that age. The school should be able to teach across all levels. The teacher is telling you she is going over work. Not sure what a tutor will be doing differently. From what you have said your daughter needs to be in a place where she can find her thing at her own pace. If she is lower set at 7 (is that a thing?) why will that change? Maybe elsewhere she will be more in the middle and academic success will only be one measure to judge her by

Yes that is true. On the reports there is a standard for national average snd one for the school. It probably is working above national average.

They will be setted next year not yet. That's my own opinion from what the teacher said- she's borderline for maths. I don't think they are pushed but they are just continuously working at a higher level I imagine.

The purpose of the tutor would be to build confidence by filling in gaps and making her more secure in her own ability.

Does your school have an ELSA practitioner
Emotional Literacy Support Assistant
They can help with self esteem etc
Google it
I'm one

@KleineDracheKokosnuss

Stop focusing on her academics and start focusing on her social emotional learning instead. She’s doing okay at school, she’s not particularly worse than any of the other kids who had to be disrupted due to Covid. And the school have a plan for that.

However, she is struggling socially, so your entire focus needs to be on boosting her socially, including posting her confidence. I recommend joining one of the social groups, depending what’s in your area: for example Beavers or brownies.

I also recommend that you look into things where she can try something new, meet new people. At all times, with you present to support her. If you’re a religious family, then go to the church service that has lots of children’s groups attached to it. If she’s shown any interest whatsoever in any sport whatsoever, sign her up for a few trial sessions as a club. If she really really really likes art, then go to art lessons together, or a crafting group, or sit down and do the Olaf falafel YouTube episodes together.

The really important thing is going to be you making the time to do it with her, and talking to her, and generally showing you believe in her. she will slowly grow in confidence.

I would only move her schools if there is a bigger issue at school, such as bullying. It would be incredibly disruptive for her, and at the moment she is with teachers who know her well and are trying to help her.

Yes, I am doing that. Today I have set up two play dates and enquired about an out of school activity. She already does two out of school activities but they are quite singular.

I am working on boosting her confidence in all areas. She's good at art and we are currently working on a canvas and she has started helping with making dinner and doing jobs around the house.

We already outsource everything we can. I am trying but unfortunately at the moment things are very busy and we try snd do as much as we can with the dcs but during the week it's hard to find time to do things after school. We are busy already everyday except one.

@SpanishPapers

What learning support is she getting in school? What is on offer? My DC were at a similarly academic independent school at that age- there was full LS provision and about a third of children had extra sessions. Has anything been said about something similar? Is the provision there if she needs it?

I wouldn't rush to make any big changes, especially given the amount of upheaval over the last few years.

There is a permanent full time TA in class. The opportunity for support is there.the TA sometimes works with her in a group but not always. She has had another TA doing some social and emotional sessions with her too. The teacher seems to spend lots of time talking to her and helping her. I feel like the provision is there. However the junior school isn't as nurturing as this.

@MaChienEstUnDick

Honest to god, you are pushing her. You are, you just can't see it.

I'm super-familiar with this dynamic, it's all over my family: two bright parents have two children, one naturally bright, one not. Where the less academically gifted child is the eldest, it's a breeze. Where the bright/it's all easy one comes first - actually, I could say when the one most suited to the school system comes first - then there is so much tension and angst as you try to form child 2 into child 1.

They're different.

But I suspect you think I'm keyboard warrioring you so I'll duck out. Best of luck with your DD, you clearly want the best for her and you sound like a lovely mum.

This exactly. The daughter sounds like she actually just needs engaged family and friends time and to know she has value as a human, and plenty of people are saying this and OP just keeps bashing on about 'i think I'll get a tutor'. This isn't about academics this is about your child as a person, who you seem to want to pay someone to manage because you're too busy with your own life, and who also you apparently only see through a lens of academic achievement. It's very sad. My parents were also like this, your poor daughter.

Nope not at all. She gets engaged time with me . I do her school work with her every evening but it is a struggle to fit in at times. I am currently sorting out more engaged time with other activities outside of school and I am organising play dates.

I certainly don't focus on the academics only. I have said I don't need her to be the top of the class. I have always tried to install a work ethic in my dcs that you work hard and try your best you don't have to be the best.

The teacher described it as heartbreaking that she doesn't believe in herself. The self esteem I most certainly will work on in other areas. Academically I am not sure doing me homework with her is going to build her confidence up enough. I thought if a neutral person like a tutor worked with her on whatever areas she's feeling she can't do and she can then do them this will be the best way of boosting her confidence and with that the rest will come naturally once she believes in herself more.

It's like you just refuse to process that confidence isn't intrinsically linked to academics or schoolwork. Instead of doing homework with your kid every night, why not spend that time doing something productive to build your bond together? You make it seem like the only effort you think is worth putting into her is school related. Of course she has low confidence, a parent that only cares about how she's doing in school and ensuring she's doing better in school. You've not tried to make any family friends with children her age or help her foster friendships, she's not in any activities, no hobbies?? Yet you refuse to see your focus on homework and academics and now a tutor is likely the whole problem? She has value outside of school.

OP I think you're getting a hard time here. A good tutor won't feel like work to the DC at this age, and as I said above my DC looks forward to her sessions. They do a combination of regular maths problems, maths games, and word games together, and as you said, DD is much more receptive to learning with a tutor than with me (believe me, I tried through lockdown #1!). The impact on her self-belief alone has been worth every penny, and I think a big part of being good at maths is having that confidence. The Government itself has talked of providing funding for tutors for DCs that are behind/have gaps due to lockdown (yet to materialise here, but that doesn't stop it being needed/beneficial), it isn't such an outlandish idea.

PPs have mentioned Beavers/Brownies. I'd second this. DD does Beavers; she loves it, is learning lots of new skills, and they are great at promoting confidence and independence.

I would relax a bit. I posted earlier in the thread, and just wanted to add that I’m sure you are doing your best and have her best interests at heart. Step back a bit, and focus on her being happy and having quality time with you. If you ask school which areas she might need extra help in academically and make a note of it, you will be able to provide the extra input or reassurance yourself at that age. For example, lots of maths can be done through baking together, board games, deciphering and writing recipes, word searches or junior scrabble and do on, but all as part of your life together. With the right calmness and fun, she won’t even know she’s doing work, and that’s what will build both skills and self belief. Resilience is a real skill to learn, and all of our children have missed out. Allowing her time as much as anything, time to settle back in, time to be herself and be a child, and I’m sure you will look back and see a big difference. It’s not easy x

Good grief, can you just spend some time with your children? Not doing homework with them but just having fun. Your DD desperately needs to know she is valued for herself.
I know life is busy, we have 3 DC (grown up now) and despite DH having a full on busy corporate job and me working part time, we managed without outsourcing anything.
That included after school activities for all 3, play dates, time with each child individually, and being around to provide support for homework.

The children learn their values (and resilience) from you.
Do they ever see you fail?
Do they get to learn from watching how you deal with burning supper, or getting a poor mark in a paper, or compromising with each other?
How you react when everyday stuff goes wrong, teaches your children what you value. And if your reaction to these is a must try harder, that’s not good enough, need a tutor, response then your DD is learning that not getting top marks is failing.