Wondering if I should take my Dd out of her private school?

[cleocleo24]

Just had quite an upsetting parents evening with dd7 teacher. She said that my dd has some gaps in phonics and maths but nothing concerning and more to do with so much time off school with lockdowns. She's getting group support in these areas. Fine. We will continue to do all we can to help her at home.

However, she said that my dd doesn't seem to like herself very much and doesn't think she's very good at things. She really lacks confidence. She used the word heartbreaking. When I mentioned it to dd she says she sometimes cries when she feels she can't do her work. A while ago she said to be so and so is really good at everything and hers everything quickly and right. She doesn't. We had a good talk about doing her best and not worrying about others and how people are good at different things.

We have sent her to quite an academic private school. Ds thrives there but I have wondered how dd would get on there. Generally she is happy at school and the teacher seems excellent. As it's smaller classes etc she is getting 1-1 and group support much more than she would probably get in a bigger class. I personally think she has the ability but she lacks confidence and can be very defiant when she decides she can't /won't do something. I feel really upset by this.

I am wondering if this isn't the right school for her and as she moves to Year 3 her confidence will be further impacted as the works gets harder, they are setted and a new intake comes in who have set exams to get there. Or if we can just work with school to boost her confidence and provide more support at home.

I was also wondering about getting her a tutor. Not so much for academic reasons but more to boost her confidence by having some 1-1 support and filling in those gaps. Maybe this is a better option as moving schools might be quite drastic.

I am torn though as I don't want her confidence to slip further and there are other private schools in our area that are known to be less academic.

What should I do?

@Jovanka

I think I would be asking the school for support OP. You are already paying for a private school, it seems bonkers to then have to pay for a tutor in Year 2 already so that your child can keep up in phonics and maths. If the teacher says the whole cohort is ‘behind’ then am guessing that must mean behind where the class would have been if the pandemic had not happened. So, the school will be putting a plan in place, it shouldn’t up to individual parents to get tutors for their Year 2 children.

If you think your DD might have dyslexia or another support need then that’s a separate issue and should be explored regardless of getting a tutor. As if that is the case, the school would need to employ different strategies to work with your child’s needs.

Yes I think she means the whole year is behind where they would be if COVID had never happened. It's interesting to mull over if this would still be the case with my dd if covid had never happened.

They do have a plan. She's told me and my dd is currently getting group support at times in these areas. It's not all the time though which is why I think she's not in the lowest section of the class.

I don't mind getting the tutor as I feel it's alongside the schools work. As I said I would be getting it more for a confidence boost so she can have some 1-1 support and just go through the gaps. The school and I are both working with her. Her reading wasn't quite there on the last parents evening and now it is as he have been working hard on it at home. I think we can do the same with her phonics and maths. But unfortunately I don't have the time to do it as well as a tutor would plus I think it would be better coming from a tutor rather than her mum.

I think the first step is the tutor to see if these are just gaps or something more. As I said it's more to boost her confidence as I am not too concerned she's behind- I don't think she is. I am not sure the school will be able to boost her confidence in the same way the tutor could.

It might be worth you looking up some information on autism in girls. I'm not saying your daughter has this but it can present in a much quieter, subtler way with girls, almost internalised.

Wow, no way I would shell out for tutoring on top of private school fees! I've paid for tutoring but my kids go to regular school.

If the problem is with confidence I would maybe look at something like play therapy rather than a tutor. School should be taking care of the academic side of things.

If she's really not settling and thriving then maybe look at a different school, more nurturing and less academic might suit her better.

How does she feel in comparison with DS? I’m curious because he’s been mentioned a few times in your posts, and I wonder if she feels she isn’t as clever as him etc.

Personally I wouldn't rush to move schools, especially if she has good friends. My DS is in state and agree she will be getting much more hands on support/121 in a smaller class.

My friend is going through similar issues with her daughters' anxiety/lack is self esteem, same year group. My husband is a clinical psychologist and has recommended getting some mental health support from a child psychologist. Our school are also getting a mental health charity to come in to do therapy one day a week, there are so many children affected by the pandemic.

I'm not sure I would rush into getting a tutor at this stage. Does she have nice activities outside school or is there something she'd like to start? I'd also make sure you're spending plenty of quality time with her at home - reading together, arts and crafts and games.

It's a tricky one isn't it, I think it's good you're open to moving her to a school perhaps more suited- but I would talk to the school again and see if there's anything they can do to support her.

I think your focus on the tutor and learning is likely misplaced? School said untroubled by academic level but concerned (very concerned - “heartbreaking”?) about her self image and confidence and you’ve mentioned that she’s withdrawn from other things and doesn’t have friends outside of school. I find it odd that a child at early level primary school would have a tutor rather than extra learning play etc with her parents. A tutor may further erode her confidence and mark her out from her brother. My focus would be on the emotional right away - I don’t know but perhaps involving her at looking at extracurricular stuff she might like, arranging things to do with the friends she does like, days out, making an extra point of commenting on her non academic plus points - creative, thoughtful, athletic, strong etc, one on one time with parents, treats. Also, bear in mind the problem if you are really hard on yourself is that how well you do academically is actually inconsequential - you will always beat yourself up and look on any minor issue as a huge failure. I speak as someone who does this even though I am naturally academic and did very well at (state) school, without tutors. Self criticism is a way of life and really good to try and address early on, rather than ramp up academic efforts and attempts.

Hey OP my DD sounds at. Similar level and similar school. Also year 2. What is it that she's struggling with?

I just wonder if the teaching is not great, it's not uncommon to have vastly different abilities in a class (with various years in one class etc.) so I just wonder why your DD would be feeling so down about it, they must be pushing quite a competitive edge in the class?

It just seems quite extreme to have a tutor in year 2 when she's probably working pretty hard anyway. Could you not try to 'fill in the gaps' at home / in the holidays so she's ready to go next year?

@caulkheaded

How does she feel in comparison with DS? I’m curious because he’s been mentioned a few times in your posts, and I wonder if she feels she isn’t as clever as him etc.

Unfortunately I think she does feel that way. He can be quite mean to her about what she doesn't know compared to him and puts her down a bit. We stamp that out immediately but I am going to have a chat with him.

I could tell pretty early on that Ds was pretty able and would do well at this school. He just gets stuff and has a good mathematical mind and memory. He's always been above expectations.

I noticed pretty quickly that dd was not like that. There are some things I ve noticed she doesn't get when you would expect her to. It's tricky as she lacks in confidence sometimes she won't do things and won't try even though she probably could do it. It's hard to know if this is down to lockdown or just her academic ability. I have been careful not to compare and praise them both. I noticed when she went back to school after the second lockdown she began to notice and comment on what others do/don't know. Whereas Ds has always been quite happy in his own ability and doesn't compare.

That's why I wonder if a tutor would suit too as it would be a good way to find out. It would be a temporary thing to boost her confidence to reiterate the areas she is unsure of and hopefully give her some self belief so she is more able to tackle new things with confidence.

She told me she cries over her work sometimes as she doesn't know what to do. I think this is more to do with not listening though rather than not being able to it. We have talked about that.

@runforyourdog

Hey OP my DD sounds at. Similar level and similar school. Also year 2. What is it that she's struggling with?

I just wonder if the teaching is not great, it's not uncommon to have vastly different abilities in a class (with various years in one class etc.) so I just wonder why your DD would be feeling so down about it, they must be pushing quite a competitive edge in the class?

It just seems quite extreme to have a tutor in year 2 when she's probably working pretty hard anyway. Could you not try to 'fill in the gaps' at home / in the holidays so she's ready to go next year?

Yes we have been working at home to fill the gaps. She's on track with everything except slightly below in maths. The phonics difficulty is apparently something the teacher has recognised throughout the year. She is slow though and the examples of her writing the teacher showed me weren't great.

I thought a tutor temporarily might be good just to boost her own self belief that she can do it by filling the gaps which is less easy for me to do. So that once she has that confidence she will be ok as she moved up to year 3. I don't want her moving up feeling like she's no good and then struggling more as the work gets harder. If we fill those gaps now, boost her own self belief and view of herself and how good she is at her school work I am hoping that will then be enough for her to get back on track. Obviously if she is then still struggling slightly then we can re-think things. They take more children next year who are selected from exams so I am aware the standard goes up again.

I don't think it's a competitive environment set by the teachers and they are good at the moment in supporting those who are struggling more. I guess just because of the children they have there though the academic level is probably up from what it is in other schools. Which may well be making the confidence issue worse. Some children strive in that environment like Ds but for others I guess it could erode their confidence if they always see others getting it more than then. I worry this will be dd. But at the same time I have said to her there will always be people who seem to get things more than her and people who find it more difficult than her.

The teacher did say year 3 will not be as it normally is though as they have recognised the whole class isn't up to that level and still needs phonics etc which they would normally stop by then.

Seems you're putting a lot of pressure on a seven year old. Back off. Reward the things she can do. Build her confidence by offering small, safe steps and being delighted when she succeeds.

Does she want a fresh start in a new school? If that sounds good to her, fair enough, let her try. Sometimes a new school makes all the difference.

I'm concerned that you think her problems might be down to 'not listening'. Children are usually compliant, its a survival mechanism. 'Not listening' might be 'having difficulty processing spoken instructions' and therefore not her fault at all. Particularly (and I say this as an autistic, not as a decade-long mner) if she is neurodivergent.

@Facewipes

I think your focus on the tutor and learning is likely misplaced? School said untroubled by academic level but concerned (very concerned - “heartbreaking”?) about her self image and confidence and you’ve mentioned that she’s withdrawn from other things and doesn’t have friends outside of school. I find it odd that a child at early level primary school would have a tutor rather than extra learning play etc with her parents. A tutor may further erode her confidence and mark her out from her brother. My focus would be on the emotional right away - I don’t know but perhaps involving her at looking at extracurricular stuff she might like, arranging things to do with the friends she does like, days out, making an extra point of commenting on her non academic plus points - creative, thoughtful, athletic, strong etc, one on one time with parents, treats. Also, bear in mind the problem if you are really hard on yourself is that how well you do academically is actually inconsequential - you will always beat yourself up and look on any minor issue as a huge failure. I speak as someone who does this even though I am naturally academic and did very well at (state) school, without tutors. Self criticism is a way of life and really good to try and address early on, rather than ramp up academic efforts and attempts.

Thank you, yes to are right. I will be doing that too. I have already arranged a couple of play dates.

Since noticing she lacks confidence and is struggling I have really made an effort to sit with her and do her learning with her after school. We are really trying to promote confidence. But you are absolutely right that shouldn't just be academically. Unfortunately she did miss out on this during lockdown and I feel guilty for that. I was juggling a lot. I probably didn't give her enough support in this period but we were having issues with Ds emotionally too. So dd was left slightly. Plus I was trying to work and study too. I do blame myself for her lack of confidence now and so I guess I want to do anything I possibly can to boost it.

We are very time poor as DH works full time and I am working part time but studying for a masters so life is a bit hectic at the moment. We are trying to do as much as we can. Including 1-1 time. We do her homework with her most nights.

I guess getting a tutor makes me think it might answer some questions. As to whether it's simply the wrong environment for her, or if she had a boost of confidence she would fly. If she's really struggling academically or if she just has some gaps. I have friends who's dcs are really struggling academically at the school yet they have still kept them there. But it doesn't seem to have eroded their confidence. But with dd if it starts to erode her confidence I don't think it's the right school. A tutor might help answer those questions.

I think I would leave her where she is. All children have had so much uncertainty that there was always going to be a knock on effect. Moving her will be yet more uncertainty, and isn’t what I would do if you are generally happy that it’s not the school itself that’s the problem. I also wouldn’t introduce a tutor yet, but ask for more support from school and work with her at home in unthreatening ways to fill the gaps. I think, more pressingly, work on her resilience and self esteem. Plenty of reassurance, pulling her in, simple and consistent praise and boundaries, reminders that she is enough the way she is. Avoid any comparisons or pressures beyond consistent routines and expectations, and find the line between boosting her up without her playing on it at all to gain extra attention. I know that sounds a bit harsh, but you don’t want to be creating a new problem, while sorting this out. The school should have a counsellor too, and I would be asking them to refer her to talk about raising self esteem, unpicking anything under the surface and giving coping strategies to develop resilience. I hope she’s ok 💐

@StopStartStop

Seems you're putting a lot of pressure on a seven year old. Back off. Reward the things she can do. Build her confidence by offering small, safe steps and being delighted when she succeeds.

Does she want a fresh start in a new school? If that sounds good to her, fair enough, let her try. Sometimes a new school makes all the difference.

I'm concerned that you think her problems might be down to 'not listening'. Children are usually compliant, its a survival mechanism. 'Not listening' might be 'having difficulty processing spoken instructions' and therefore not her fault at all. Particularly (and I say this as an autistic, not as a decade-long mner) if she is neurodivergent.

Yes- I take your point. I will Keep an eye out for that but at the moment I just don't think she listens. I watched her swimming class yesterday and she was like it then and has decided she hates swimming now, after always loving it, as the teacher gets frustrated with her. When she did listen she swam brilliantly.

Unfortunately she is quite unusual because she can be very strong willed and defiant. If she's made up her mind about something that can be it. She's quick to make her mind up about who or what she likes/doesn't like and sticks to it. She has a very strong sense of what's fair/unfair in her eyes. But at the same time she can really love to please and be helpful when in the right mood.

She told me she gets distracted by others and I think she likes to tell others off for behaviour and get involved unnecessarily rather than just listening herself.

This is going to sound mean however I say it so please believe me when I say I don't intend it to be: but you're hothousing her and I don't think you even realise you're doing it.

Her teacher has said she's a wee bit behind because she's missed so much school because of lock down. Your immediate response is to jump into guilt (this is totally my fault cos I spent so much time with clever son) and then into fixing her (do I move schools, I'll get a tutor, we should probably stop comparing her to clever son).

I mean this in the kindest way - stop spinning. Take a breath. She might just actually need a little bit more time to catch up. You said upthread she's not even in the lowest group? (Though wtf setting them at this age after two years off school).

Give her time to be a kid. Give her time to catch up. Give yourself time to accept she's perhaps not as academic as your other child. Stop him being a dick to her. Find other interests and other areas that she can excel in. That might be cooking at home, it might be making up imaginary games and videoing them, it might be beavers (beavers is great for girls with low confidence).

But take a breath and stop trying to fix her. It might just be that she's OK as she is.

@gluenotsoup

I think I would leave her where she is. All children have had so much uncertainty that there was always going to be a knock on effect. Moving her will be yet more uncertainty, and isn’t what I would do if you are generally happy that it’s not the school itself that’s the problem. I also wouldn’t introduce a tutor yet, but ask for more support from school and work with her at home in unthreatening ways to fill the gaps. I think, more pressingly, work on her resilience and self esteem. Plenty of reassurance, pulling her in, simple and consistent praise and boundaries, reminders that she is enough the way she is. Avoid any comparisons or pressures beyond consistent routines and expectations, and find the line between boosting her up without her playing on it at all to gain extra attention. I know that sounds a bit harsh, but you don’t want to be creating a new problem, while sorting this out. The school should have a counsellor too, and I would be asking them to refer her to talk about raising self esteem, unpicking anything under the surface and giving coping strategies to develop resilience. I hope she’s ok 💐

Thank you, great advice. She has had two terms of 1-1 support for self esteem and friendship issues at school with a TA. It's made a slight difference probably but not lots.

I will do all you have suggested. I still feel she is noticing the gaps academically between her and others in class though and no amount of praise outside of school is going to change that. We have had lots of talks about doing your best and it doesn't matter what others are doing and people learn at different rates etc. But not really done any good. Her behaviour at has gone hill and I knew something was going on at school. Parents evening just confirmed it.

This sounds like my Dd who is the same age, but not at private school. I would think about building her confidence and self belief in other areas, such as riding a bike, sports, drama class, swimming, music, etc. Personally a tutor sounds like pressure.

And with the above I'm thinking more along the lines of one on one time with parents and family time, not just clubs.

I moved my DC last year from private prep to state primary. This was due to a house move and other factors but the school move has been such a great thing for them. Their confidence has soared as they are no longer feeling like they are trying to keep up with kids who have been heavily tutored at home for academic success. My child has gone from not believing in themselves to now putting themselves forward for more challenging work at school. It's awful feeling like you're at the bottom . Whilst the private school teachers were great and offered pastoral support to him, no longer being surrounded by kids whose parents are constantly pushing them to the top edge academically has made him come on leaps and bounds. He is a lighthearted happy jokey kid again with a weight lifted off his shoulders. No need for added pressure with tutors when they are so young. He is thriving and loving life. Age 8 thats surely setting them up far better that academic pressure.

@MaChienEstUnDick

This is going to sound mean however I say it so please believe me when I say I don't intend it to be: but you're hothousing her and I don't think you even realise you're doing it.

Her teacher has said she's a wee bit behind because she's missed so much school because of lock down. Your immediate response is to jump into guilt (this is totally my fault cos I spent so much time with clever son) and then into fixing her (do I move schools, I'll get a tutor, we should probably stop comparing her to clever son).

I mean this in the kindest way - stop spinning. Take a breath. She might just actually need a little bit more time to catch up. You said upthread she's not even in the lowest group? (Though wtf setting them at this age after two years off school).

Give her time to be a kid. Give her time to catch up. Give yourself time to accept she's perhaps not as academic as your other child. Stop him being a dick to her. Find other interests and other areas that she can excel in. That might be cooking at home, it might be making up imaginary games and videoing them, it might be beavers (beavers is great for girls with low confidence).

But take a breath and stop trying to fix her. It might just be that she's OK as she is.

You have totally got the wrong end of he stick. I am not a pushy mum and we are not pushing her. I don't care about her being the best. I am not comparing her to Ds. I was just saying some children can strive in a school like that and others it can erode confidence.

As I have said several times with the tutor the emphasis would be on boosting confidence. Creating a safe environment so she feels she is good at things and yes, filling the gaps, but more so she recognises her own ability and that she is able to do it. Rather than to get her ahead if you see what I mean. I just thought if she gets re-taught the foundations she missed then this would boost her confidence which would mean she would have a more I can do this attitude to future learning. It's not about Making her into something she's not but giving her the opportunity to strive and do her best. Whatever level that is. Isn't that what every parent wants. We are lucky enough to have the money to do it so why wouldn't we?

Honest to god, you are pushing her. You are, you just can't see it.

I'm super-familiar with this dynamic, it's all over my family: two bright parents have two children, one naturally bright, one not. Where the less academically gifted child is the eldest, it's a breeze. Where the bright/it's all easy one comes first - actually, I could say when the one most suited to the school system comes first - then there is so much tension and angst as you try to form child 2 into child 1.

They're different.

But I suspect you think I'm keyboard warrioring you so I'll duck out. Best of luck with your DD, you clearly want the best for her and you sound like a lovely mum.

@Frozentoo

I moved my DC last year from private prep to state primary. This was due to a house move and other factors but the school move has been such a great thing for them. Their confidence has soared as they are no longer feeling like they are trying to keep up with kids who have been heavily tutored at home for academic success. My child has gone from not believing in themselves to now putting themselves forward for more challenging work at school. It's awful feeling like you're at the bottom . Whilst the private school teachers were great and offered pastoral support to him, no longer being surrounded by kids whose parents are constantly pushing them to the top edge academically has made him come on leaps and bounds. He is a lighthearted happy jokey kid again with a weight lifted off his shoulders. No need for added pressure with tutors when they are so young. He is thriving and loving life. Age 8 thats surely setting them up far better that academic pressure.

How lovely. I am glad it worked it.

Very interesting.

I think I will go ahead with the tutor as a temporary measure with the emphasis on raising confidence in her own ability and through games etc rather then academic level. A long with boosting her confidence and continued support and praise at home. I am going to look into other group activities she can do outside of school to Make new friends.

I want to see if this makes a difference to her confidence and she's then ok, no matter where she then falls academically or if it's the school environment which is eroding her confidence.

She does normally love school and is happy there. She's always been a very happy and loving child. Unfortunately I don't think she's always as kind to her friends as she could be and because she's strong willed they fall out. Unfortunately her best friend said to her that her mum said they weren't to play together because of this. Unfortunately I think this has also had an effect on her own her self belief that she's a good person. So along with her academic belief she has this too.

Trust your instincts. You don’t think it’s the right environment for her. You made the best decision at the time and you can now see it isn’t right for her.

She’s so young for you to be worrying about tutors etc. Kids that age should be enjoying school, the social side, the fun of it. If she’s not then she is clearly not thriving there.

Sounds like a lovely teacher and she was trying to reassure you about the others also needing to catch up but is that really true? They aren’t in GCSEs.

Look at other schools, get a feel for them. Focus on fun things to do as a family. Don’t worry about homework etc. a happy kid will do well and that’s the key.

@MaChienEstUnDick

Honest to god, you are pushing her. You are, you just can't see it.

I'm super-familiar with this dynamic, it's all over my family: two bright parents have two children, one naturally bright, one not. Where the less academically gifted child is the eldest, it's a breeze. Where the bright/it's all easy one comes first - actually, I could say when the one most suited to the school system comes first - then there is so much tension and angst as you try to form child 2 into child 1.

They're different.

But I suspect you think I'm keyboard warrioring you so I'll duck out. Best of luck with your DD, you clearly want the best for her and you sound like a lovely mum.

Thank you but you are wrong. We went and looked at other schools for dd before putting her in the current one. As I didn't want to assume she was like her brother and would just fit into the school as he did. I wanted to do what was right for her not just follow his footsteps.

They are two different children and we know that. I don't care if she's not the best of the best. I just want her to do her best and be confident. I am trying to work out of the school environment is stopping that right now. If I wanted her to be a mold of her brother I wouldn't be considering taking her out. I won't keep her there if it's not the right place for her.

She’s so young for you to be worrying about tutors etc. Kids that age should be enjoying school, the social side, the fun of it. If she’s not then she is clearly not thriving there.

As I said the tutor is more to boost confidence and give her the foundations now before her confidence could be further eroded as she moves up to harder work where other children are working at an even higher level than her.

I am thinking it might be best to do it now before this happens rather than leave it and her confidence completely goes. Once she has the foundations secure we would stop and let her work naturally at her own level.

I do worry that if she's put into the least able ground when they are setted next year this will not be good for her confidence again. Although maybe it will be better as gap won't be so wide and she will be working more at the sand level as her peers.