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Original poster

Daggers at school .. I am really mad

93 replies

stripey · 11/11/2004 16:14

Yesterday I took ds to nursery and saw 2 boys one with a hook (from McDs) and one with a large plastic dagger (at least 15 inches long) waiting for nursery to start. They were poking each other and other children I was amazed as their mothers took no notice and carried on chatting. When the teacher came out to let the children in to class I told her I really didn't think it was appropriate for children to have daggers in school and she told me she would sort it out.

When I collected my son at 3pm I asked him if teacher had taken away the dagger he said "no the boys had them outside at break time and were poking them at kids". I was not happy at all

Today when I dropped my son off I didn't see the boys from yesterday or the daggers so as I was leaving I was amazed to see 2 boys walking up the path grinning and pointing daggers at me (these were smaller apparently from McDs). I was fuming and stopped their mothers and told them I felt bringing daggers into school was not appropriate - and I was going to make a complain about it. They looked shocked huffed and went on their way as though I was ridiculous for saying such a thing.

I have spoken to a few parents who support my view, the problem is the teacher doesn't seem to and I feel if she had told the class yesterday not to bring these things into school there wouldn't have been a problem today. I am going to take this further.

Am I over reacting or is it reasonable to assume a school should not allow this - my son is 4.

OP posts:

Twiglett · 11/11/2004 16:30

IMHO You're over-reacting .. its a form of role play that all boys go through

I don't allow DS to have any guns or swords as toys (but he does have a light sabre) .. but I would never stop him playing with them at friends' houses ... and I wouldn't have an issue with him playing with them in a pre-school environment either

I'm really not surprised the other parents looked 'huffed' when you mentioned something to them ...

TeriS · 11/11/2004 16:35

I would say that at 4, there is a likelyhood they are going to be waving them around, and possibly poke somebody in the eye, etc,(accidentally) so probably safest if they didn't have them there.

I do see your point stripey. However, my DS (2) is pretty much lethal with all the toys he owns (when he wants to be!). I would however agree that I would be unhappy to see them in a school environment...

muddaofsuburbia · 11/11/2004 16:36

Hmm yes and no.

I agree with Twiglett that in this instance these boys were just role playing.

But children with knives in primary schools is a growing problem in the UK so a quiet word might not be such a bad idea. There was a BBC documentary the other week about this, highlighting 7 year olds takming real knives to school. I guess role play could get out of hand depending on how the school handled it.

BBC story

polly28 · 11/11/2004 16:36

I agree with twiglet ,boys love playing with these sort of toys ,they need guidance to be gentle with them sometimes, but essentially I think it's all just harmless fun.
Does your son have an aversion to them?

Personally I think going to MacDonalds and eating the crap there is worse !!

colette · 11/11/2004 16:37

Stripey,
I wish more parents share your point of view.Yes 4 year olds don't really understand the problems of knives in schools today andthey are only playing in an innocent way,but I would have complained too. So what if they get huffy , you can't always run with the masses. Good on you. Btw another reason to not go to Mcds

AuntyQuated · 11/11/2004 16:40

i agree strpey; i would have conmplained to H/T.
yes boys like playing with them, but that doesn't make it OK, they would probably enjoy playing with matches too!
imo you can't start too early to tell them that guns/daggers are not toys. they are lethal weapons and not to be played with.

SoupDragon · 11/11/2004 16:45

If they don't have a toy version, they'll just make one out of lego or something.

I think fairy wands should be banned too. They are just as much a danger as a plastic dagger.

Twiglett · 11/11/2004 16:45

Game of cowboys and Indians anyone? Well I remember playing this when I was a small child .. it did not lead me to be a homicidal maniac nor do I have a fascination with guns

its the nature of the game that enables you to teach children / encourage them .. and not removing the toys .. I've yet to see a small boy play murderer or gang member .. pirate or peter pan maybe

louise1974 · 11/11/2004 16:49

They weren't real daggers though only little toys from mcds. I can't see the harm. i agree with twiglet its role play and even if the boys didn't have daggers They would make believe with a twig or a stick. Both just as dangerous if poked in the eye buts thats impossible to completely guard against with 4 yr old boys.

I would have been angry if you had come up to me and said to me what you said to the other mums to be honest.

Slinky · 11/11/2004 16:50

I agree with Twiglett.

My son has never had a toy gun/dagger etc but it didn't stop him making ones out of Lego/Duplo/Knex and the like.

At our school, the Reception/KS1 children play with the ELC Pirate Ship and Castle. Both sets have daggers/knives.

Original poster

stripey · 11/11/2004 16:56

Thanks for the messages so far.

I think my main concern is that I don't agree with my son having plastic daggers or guns I have a 4 year old and a 2 year old and if my 4 year old is allowed to poke his brother with a dagger then my 2 year old will think it is acceptable behaviour and I really don't think it is.

If their parents think it is OK then I think that is fine as long as the are playing in their own homes or as a friends house etc but I believe the school has a responsibility not to encourage this behaviour. The boys with the daggers (there are a group of 5-6) are all moving up to Reception in January and tend to push and bully the other children in the class anyway which is bad enough but when the bring in weapons which is what I believe even toy daggers are I think I have to say something.

OP posts:

TeriS · 11/11/2004 17:00

I agree that any toy or object can be dangerous in the hands of a 4 year old, and that accidents can happen. However, if I found out that DS had been jabbed in the eye with a 15" plastic dagger at school, my first questions would be "why did the kid have a plastic dagger at school in the first place".

I also think that kids shouldn't really be taking their own toys to school - we had the same rule when I was at school (a long time ago now!), and though it a good idea.

Sozie · 11/11/2004 17:13

At dd's nursery you are not allowed to bring in your own toys except for show and tell. However, you can buy swords and shields from any toy shop and at Hever Castel in Kent they are sold in the souvenir shop. I wouldn't be surprised if they are in the dressing up boxes at the nursery anyway.

SoupDragon · 11/11/2004 17:14

Out of interest, would you feel the same if he got jabbed in the eye with a plastc wand? ie would you wonder why the wand had been at nursery/school in the first place?

If you've had the plastic wand thing that comes as part of the current McDs promotion, you'll understand - it's is so much more dangerous than the Captain Hook hook or Peter Pan dagger because it has a really heavy bit that's ideal for hitting children over the head with.

SoupDragon · 11/11/2004 17:18

Now I think of it, I'm personally of the opinion that toy swords are safe. DSs have never had a sword injury from using their toy ones but DS2 has a nasty scar on his eyebrow from when they used rulers instead because they couldn't find the nice safe plastic swords.

Original poster

stripey · 11/11/2004 17:18

I think if they were part of a school play or something then I wouldn't really a reason to complain but the boys who are bringing them in are boys who generally go around the class intimidating and pushing the others so I think it is even more important that the Teacher should not allow these things into the school.

OP posts:

Twiglett · 11/11/2004 17:19

I also think if you're gonna get jabbed in the eye .. a nice softly rounded edge of a toy sword beats a stick hands down

Twiglett · 11/11/2004 17:20

oopss .. sorry soupy didn't see you there

stripy .. I think you've just hit the nail on the head .. intimidating behaviour should be dealt with immediately and effectively by the teacher

muddaofsuburbia · 11/11/2004 17:22

Pictures of the toys are available on the (noisy) McDonalds.co.uk website. Click on the kids area then Happy Meals and all the toys can be seen.

Having now seen them, I personally think the dagger is pretty harmless, but the hook is well dodgy to be allowed in a playground.

Original poster

stripey · 11/11/2004 17:23

Soupdragon my point is not that I am afraid ds will sustain an injury from the plastic daggers but that he is being given the message that it is OK to poke others with daggers and bring things into school that can hurt others I think if a girl brought a wand in it wouldn't be with the intention of fighting.

OP posts:

SoupDragon · 11/11/2004 17:23

I don't think it's the toy swords/daggers that need addressing in this case, it's the intimidating behaviour. I suspect these boys would be intimidating without the swords, they'd just find something else.

DS1s reception teacher was very good abut this. whenever there were appropriate building items out, the boys built swords. She then used them as a learning point for what was appropriate behaviour when playing with the weapons. She had a strictly "no touching" rule and swords had to be kept below shoulder height. This seemed to be really sensible and worked well.

SoupDragon · 11/11/2004 17:25

MofS, the hook is really flimsy - the hok bit comes of the cup part really easily and could cause no damage whatsoever. The wand however...!

SoupDragon · 11/11/2004 17:27

In which case, Stripey, the problem is not the daggers but the boys. As for wands, if you'd ever been smacked on the head by an over zealous fairy wielding one of those wands that makes the magical tinkley sound when you swoosh it, you'll know where I'm coming from!

Sozie · 11/11/2004 17:27

Dd hung barbie on the hook and it fell apart! She is also lethal with a wand and I have already put one in the bin (not the McD one) as she insisted on bashing ds on the head every time she said abracadabra.

muddaofsuburbia · 11/11/2004 17:29

Is that the Sleeping Beauty thingy? - that does look lethal!

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