Daggers at school .. I am really mad

[stripey]

Yesterday I took ds to nursery and saw 2 boys one with a hook (from McDs) and one with a large plastic dagger (at least 15 inches long) waiting for nursery to start. They were poking each other and other children I was amazed as their mothers took no notice and carried on chatting. When the teacher came out to let the children in to class I told her I really didn't think it was appropriate for children to have daggers in school and she told me she would sort it out.

When I collected my son at 3pm I asked him if teacher had taken away the dagger he said "no the boys had them outside at break time and were poking them at kids". I was not happy at all

Today when I dropped my son off I didn't see the boys from yesterday or the daggers so as I was leaving I was amazed to see 2 boys walking up the path grinning and pointing daggers at me (these were smaller apparently from McDs). I was fuming and stopped their mothers and told them I felt bringing daggers into school was not appropriate - and I was going to make a complain about it. They looked shocked huffed and went on their way as though I was ridiculous for saying such a thing.

I have spoken to a few parents who support my view, the problem is the teacher doesn't seem to and I feel if she had told the class yesterday not to bring these things into school there wouldn't have been a problem today. I am going to take this further.

Am I over reacting or is it reasonable to assume a school should not allow this - my son is 4.

I totally agree with you Soupdragon. Im an historical reenactor as is dp, dss (13) and dd (9 mths). Dss has a full set of authentic toy weapons made of wood and leather which he has now outgrown (he thinks they are boring) and he also doesnt like real fighting at all so having and playing with toy weapons hasnt made him more violent. Also all the children follow the rules that we adults have for play "fighting" ie no head shots and pull your shots, hurting someone is not acceptable. So if anything its given dss a greater understanding of violence and how bad it is. Its also given him a better understanding of history and how wars come about.
DD has a stuffed cloth axe (handmade by me) and will inherit dss's toys later. I cant see her being a violent child either.

forgot to say that I dont think that daggers or any other toys are appropriate to take into school and Im surprised that they werent confiscated. When I was teaching I didnt allow children to bring any toys to school as I found they caused too many arguments.

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Ooh, another Peter Pan fan here! It's the only film ds (3) likes, and good for him, as it's actually quite close to the JM Barrie original and thus very nearly literature! Ds is quite clear that 'fighting is horrible' as he says quite often. As for swords, my stepdaughter has absolutely adored swordfighting with her dad from a very young age, as well as playfighting with him. She is the gentlest, most sedate 13year old you can imagine now (honest, everyone is bowled over by her politeness, maturity etc)....and on Sunday she is representing her fencing club in a tournament. I very much put this down to all those years of swordfighting in the park with dad.

my 3 yr old ds2 is obsessed by weapons - loves guns, swords etc. ds1 is obsessed by cars. We have a vast array of Bionicle swords etc and agree with others that they hurt less than being hit bu a piece of train track or similar being used as a weapon....

I still have hopes that ds2 grows up to be a gentle, decent human being despite having provided him with weapons

Peter Pan closely followed by Robin Hood, I love the singing bird in that one!! Oh they're just not the same anymore!! I guess thats another thread!

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This is interesting- especially soupy'sa earlier point about play. I have 2 children. My 5 year old cannot play (severely autistic). Really doesn't understand it, has no concept of it, has no idea of the use of toys. After much teaching he is finally learning some very simple play sequences.

Watching my 2 year old develop play has been fascinating for me. For as long as I can remember he's been desperate to play. It's impossible to stop him and he really does play all day long. His real need for play contrasts so greatly with his brothers. So for me- swords etc- well as long as they don't get too overexcited or as long as they're not too mismatched fine. I remember watching ds2 running after my cousins 2 boys when he was about 18 months (my cousins boys were 6 and 9). The 2 older boys kept stopping to rough and tumble and ds2 would puff up to them lie down next to them and wave his legs in the air. My friend banned guns with her eldest and he just took his toy hoover apart and used the hose from that instead. Children will use whatever they can find to play with, and if they want to play fight they will. I really believe that normally developing children have a need to have their play supervised from afar to ensure that they do learn appropriate boundaries, but they don't really need it directed by adults. It's too inbuilt.

However I'm all in favour of banning personal toys from the classroom- causes too many problems and squabbles.

We do Viking too Secur. Dss loves it but we didnt get into it until he was 9 so he was a good bit older. Im very into the village life side of things esp the crafts and am hoping to get dd into that too.

I think my stepdaughter's frequent rough and tumble playfights with her dad has helped to make her a/closer to her father b/more cool about boys and c/ more confident
When we went to stay with a family with older kids, ds absolutely loved wrestling with their seven year old boy - he adored it, I thought it was good for him, and he didn't for one second get it mixed up with real aggression - and he's only just three.
I don't agree with taking toys to school, but really don't think there is a connection between playfighting and violence in adulthood. I think the research backs me up here too.

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When I dropped ds off at nursery this afternoon I saw there was a notice on the notice board from the Headteacher saying that parents were strongly encouraged not to allow children to bring toy weapons to school but if they did they would be confiscated immediately.

I have to say I am really pleased about this.

I think I have leart a lot from this thread and it is interesting to hear different peoples perspectives on the issue. I am not sure I will be going out and buying ds a dagger but maybe I won't be so judgemental about them in future. I have never had an issue with other people who allow their children these toys but I just didn't want them at my sons school.

When I said "take the weapons away" I didn't quite mean it in the "give that hear, you're not havin it" sense, more in the metaphrical sense of taking them out of the equation if that makes sense... I'm not sure if it does.

We watched the violent cartoons on TV and played with weapons etc but I don't find it acceptable to have the real thing now I'm an adult. In fact, I'm opposed to guns/weapons being in homes. I think one brother is the same - he doesn't find real weapons as being acceptable. My eldest brother is an allowable exception -he's on the RAF and has a gun when on guard duty but I don't think that counts as having a gun in "real life"

I honestly believe that being taught to play with a toy sword or other weapon in a responsible fashion actually teaches a child a lot about how to behave. My personal "limit" is that I don't allow DSs to have real looking guns. They have "laser guns" and rubbery knights' swords as I feel they are well removed from the Real Thing. We also make it clear that what happens on TV (cartoons, Power Rangers etc) is not real. Even DS2 (3.75) understands this.

BTW, Tarantula, I love the "stuffed cloth axe"!! )

Hi Secur We are with a group called Themesvike which is part of the Vikings (NFPS). I used to enjoy fighting tho but cant now that I have dd (maybe next year or the year after). Im thinking of getting a bow tho and getting dss into archery too.
{grin} Soupdragon All the men loved the cloth axe too and dd didnt get much chance to play with it at all as they were all off fighting with it. (do they ever grow up)
I think thsi conversation if fasinating and has given me loads of food for thought.

PS what group were you with Secur?

Stripey, I'm with you. I don't think the issue is whether the toys themselves are dangerous (the sword looks pretty innocuous). To me it's more to do with the fact that toy weapons aren't appropriate at school.

Incidentally, my 5 year old was having speech therapy a couple of weeks ago. The therapist was testing her pronunciation by asking her to name pictures of various objects. One was a gun. I was a little shocked that that was one of the onjects, but I was very happy to see that my daughter had no idea what it was or it's name!

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Muddling my way through as the mother of a 4.5 ds I have read this thread with interest. My view is not entirely logical, if I analyse it! I would never buy my ds a toy gun - I actually feel a bit ill seeing children with toy guns and I suppose it's because they look so realistic. Yes, my ds has made his own from lego and twigs and run around shouting bang bang but that all seems so much more innocent and rooted in fantasy play than when I see children toting replica Uzis. But he is another Peter Pan fan, he loves anything to do with kinghts and has a full costume, including a wooden sword. He loves to pretend fight with it - although if the swords touch or anyone is hurt away in the cupboard it goes. This is where I feel uneasy - if I asked him he probably wouldn't say fighting is bad or wrong. He knows 'hitting' is wrong but he associates fighting with playing knights and superheroes (pretending to karate kick the baddies). I think it does give confusing messages although I do agree that learning and boundaries is an important aspect of children's wrestling-type play.

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And agree that 'weapons' shouldn't be in school or nursery - ours both have rules about it. I guess because this type of play needs to be closely supervised as much as anything else.

Y'Draig is one of our groups Secur. I dont do the politics bit either (had to look it up to make sure but it sounded familiar). I can never remember group names. Its hard enough with people
Like you puddle I never bought dss any guns tho he made plenty with lego. I know he had some round his mums house but never round ours. Never really thought about it deeply before. Possibly its because swords etc are "old fashioned" war items associated with "chivalry"(sp?) and knights etc whereas guns are much more current and deadly form of warfare and fighting if that makes any sense at all

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A slight diversion here back to the original issue. Stripey, although I would not have been as upset as you about daggers in school, I do agree that it's probably inappropriate, although I do let my children have play weapons at home...(it's daddy's power tools that I spend my time confiscating.) I think perhaps you over reacted on the second day. Maybe the teacher meant to say something to the boys and just didn't get a chance. I think that the fact that she put up a sign the next day indicates that the intention was always there to do something. However, you do have to choose your battles. I think it's possible that if you get a reputation as a parent who is always complaining about little things (I'm not necessarily suggesting that you do this...I do realize that you've only complained about daggers), then when a big thing comes along, it may get dismissed as just another little thing. I sort of think of it like I've got a limited amount of "complaint cards." You may well want to use one of yours up on toy swords, but I think it's worth viewing that as a complaint that you can't make about something else. Sorry for rambling, it's 2 am and I can't sleep.