Daggers at school .. I am really mad

[stripey]

Yesterday I took ds to nursery and saw 2 boys one with a hook (from McDs) and one with a large plastic dagger (at least 15 inches long) waiting for nursery to start. They were poking each other and other children I was amazed as their mothers took no notice and carried on chatting. When the teacher came out to let the children in to class I told her I really didn't think it was appropriate for children to have daggers in school and she told me she would sort it out.

When I collected my son at 3pm I asked him if teacher had taken away the dagger he said "no the boys had them outside at break time and were poking them at kids". I was not happy at all

Today when I dropped my son off I didn't see the boys from yesterday or the daggers so as I was leaving I was amazed to see 2 boys walking up the path grinning and pointing daggers at me (these were smaller apparently from McDs). I was fuming and stopped their mothers and told them I felt bringing daggers into school was not appropriate - and I was going to make a complain about it. They looked shocked huffed and went on their way as though I was ridiculous for saying such a thing.

I have spoken to a few parents who support my view, the problem is the teacher doesn't seem to and I feel if she had told the class yesterday not to bring these things into school there wouldn't have been a problem today. I am going to take this further.

Am I over reacting or is it reasonable to assume a school should not allow this - my son is 4.

I couldn't sleep easily last night either and nearly got up to skim through mumsnet around the same time as you, SofiaAmes. Anyway having read this well argued thread yesterday, I got thinking about magic wands and role play.

As soupdragon pointed out, wands can be as dangerous as swords. And really are they so innocent a toy anyway?

Is the concept of magic always 100% good? Not in my book. You can have bad magic, evil deeds, and where does that lead? superstition, deception, bigotory, madness, persecution of those who are deemed different. Girls having toys that encourage magic role play - how do you square that with the burning of witches, all those innocent females who lost their lives?

OK I am illustrating an extreme view here, but d
Does anyone ever ban magic toys for these reasons? not that I am aware of. Girls playing with wands might seems more innocent and ok than boys playing with swords. But both toys have roots in less than innocent real life. I think it's unfair to weapon users of a means of roleplay while not depriving wand users of the same. I think that teacher's note about not bringing in toy weapons was sexist. BUT I think all toys should be banned from school.

I don't think role play should be banned. I am firmly with the pro toy gun lobby here, for the reasons soupy and others have stated.

Has anyone here read any Vivian Gussin Paley books? She writes really well about fantasy role play and gender. (Shes an American kindergarten teacher). They are really readable too. It made me rethink my views about boys and guns. I used to work in nursery classes and often felt that the constant refrain of "no guns" was really stifling some of the boys creativity. I remember one particular nursery nurse insiting this boy had made a fire hose to help put out fire not a gun. He just looked confused. Theres a funny Saki short story about this too.

I read this with interest and my ds1 nearly 5 has toys guns and swords and cowboy gun holsters at home. He has a baby brother and has never jabbed him, he has been taught his boundaries by me as well as playing with other children who have the same kind of toys. He pretends to jab me and daddy and his brother but has never actually pushed it into us so it touched us.
What is wrong with boys or girls for that matter playing with toy guns e.t.c.? It is only playing part of developing as a child. My ds knows his boundaries he loves rough and tumble rollplaying turtles, power rangers, cowboys, buzz lightyear and woody and he loves to rollplay especially with dh. Some cartoons and films children watch like Tarzan, Toy Story, can be compared to others more violent type like Turtles and Power Rangers as they ALL have fighting in, so really we cannot sensor completely fighting e.t.c. out of our children's lives. My ds1 asked me about the War and poppies as he learned a little about it in school, I explained how the soilders died fighting for us and told him about planes and bombs e.t.c all in brief he had no nightmares but if he had been younger I would have explained differently, but in the same context if he were younger he probably wouldn't have asked me. We watch the news in our house if something comes on that may frighten him, I'll switch over, but most of the time he is drawing or playing and has no knowlegde of the news. I used to play The Professionals and Starsky and Hutch (a Tomboy !!!!) with pretend guns and knives, I am fine nothing wrong with me (dh,s opinion may differ). But I do agree that toys of any kind should not be brought from home to nursery. There are plenty of toys for kids to play with.

I read this with interest and my ds1 nearly 5 has toys guns and swords and cowboy gun holsters at home. He has a baby brother and has never jabbed him, he has been taught his boundaries by me as well as playing with other children who have the same kind of toys. He pretends to jab me and daddy and his brother but has never actually pushed it into us so it touched us.
What is wrong with boys or girls for that matter playing with toy guns e.t.c.? It is only playing part of developing as a child. My ds knows his boundaries he loves rough and tumble rollplaying turtles, power rangers, cowboys, buzz lightyear and woody and he loves to rollplay especially with dh. Some cartoons and films children watch like Tarzan, Toy Story, can be compared to others more violent type like Turtles and Power Rangers as they ALL have fighting in, so really we cannot sensor completely fighting e.t.c. out of our children's lives. My ds1 asked me about the War and poppies as he learned a little about it in school, I explained how the soilders died fighting for us and told him about planes and bombs e.t.c all in brief he had no nightmares but if he had been younger I would have explained differently, but in the same context if he were younger he probably wouldn't have asked me. We watch the news in our house if something comes on that may frighten him, I'll switch over, but most of the time he is drawing or playing and has no knowlegde of the news. I used to play The Professionals and Starsky and Hutch (a Tomboy !!!!) with pretend guns and knives, I am fine nothing wrong with me (dh,s opinion may differ). But I do agree that toys of any kind should not be brought from home to nursery. There are plenty of toys for kids to play with.

oops sorry to post twice ds2 sitting on my lap must have pressed something without me realising.

I do agree that these really shouldn't be taken into nursery, they should have enought toys there already for the kids to play with! and whilst I agree with Moosh about boundaries being taught, that's great until a kid gets overexcited and forgets themselves, then wallop and tears before bedtime.....It's a mystery to me why the law won't give a CE stamp to people doing latex swords for children to use (I have a friend whose co tried to go for it, and it would have bankrupted them) Latex is a far safer option and kids won't take their eyes out using it, unlike the plastic ones available all over the shop.....legoworld do a nice sponger version I note tho.......

You can get blow up swords that are just as much fun, but even when he comes home from school he'll pull a twig out of his pocket and say the he and his friends were using the twigs as laser guns to play in the playground. Or at home he will use one of his guns as a robot or a baddie in a Toy Story roll play, which makes me proud that my son has a great imagination. So you can sensor at home, but they will still roll play with what ever they can get their hands on. Plus I don't allow him to take his weopans to the Supermarket because he may aim it for fun at some innocent old lady!!! Which would be really embarassing !!

Don't know where I stand on this one.

For over 15 years, I was strongly opposed to my children having weapons as toys. Then I caught my youngest(then 5) and his friend playing with a toy gun. When I asked him what he was doing with the gun, his amazing reply was that, it's only a toy, he wouldn't hurt anybody and he knew that real guns could hurt or kill people, they were only pretending and it wasn't like a knife where he'd be poking anybody.

Stripey, whilst I fully agree with your comments, and I definately agree that schools should not allow these 'toys' into their grounds, I do think that whatever happens, it is down to the parents to make sure that their children are aware of the realities of hurting other people. We can't keep our kids away from everything that we fear could be influential to their understanding of the world or they wouldn't watch things like cartoons, we definately wouldn't read them fairy tales, we'd keep all newspapers out of their sight and not listen to the news whilst they were in earshot.

It is annoying when some parents aren't even aware of the potential of allowing their children play weapons, but at the same time your own child/children have your sensible influence and knowledge that you can pass on to them. Some people will always remain ignorant of the potential influence of certain things on children. They are the ones with the problem - your child is lucky to have you.

My son is now 15, very sensible and a really nice, respectful, popular young man, who cares for other people and the world around him. He has very little, if any interest at all in violent games. His choice of films are generally comedies, etc and he even calls from his friends houses to ask if he can watch films that he knows I might not like his to see (violence, etc).

Stripey well done for mentioning it to the parents and the teacher.I do not understand why people think mit is acceptable and natural for boys to do this.It is just peer pressure.My son has no interest in power rangers and will half heartedly play this with other boys till he gets fed up.He is happy playing My little pony with his girlfriends at school.He has looked at action menetc but does not seem interested.Loves football and creative stuff and running around madly.
Too easy to say its natural and that is what they do.I think parents should think more carefully.It is completely unacceptable in a school environment.
So,Good on You and stick to your guns(so to speak)!

Doobydo, my son isn't interested in weapons either - but then he isn't interested in cars. It's not because he's super-saintly, it's just his personality and taste, and I suspect your son is similar. It doesn't mean all the other boys are somehow identical to ours, except they've been 'indoctrinated' by violence-loving peers and parents. Lots of boys are more physical than my son, lots of girls are more interested in boys and makeup than my stepdaughter. My goddaughter (ten) is addicted to horror stories (for kids), and so was I. It's not a sign of a pathological or evil personality.

I certainly don't think parents of boys who love playing with bows and arrows are less intelligent and thoughtful than I am. As I've said, my stepdaughter adored swordfighting with her dad. A more civilised, calm, sensible young teenager you could not find. And she still swordfights, only now she does fencing. Does that make her a bad person or her dad a bad parent?

Agree Aloha. DS2 is train mad. Everything he plays with tends to get turned into trains and tunnels, or something train related. He dreams about trains. It's something that comes from within him.

DS1 can't play- but he gets the same feedback and need to look at washing machines, washing lines, stairs and doors.

I do think we (this generation of parents) is too ready to try and shape a child's play. Proper imaginative play comes from within the child and should be child led. Just my experience of watching a normally developing child and their need for play- and how inate it is to them.

dd2 turns things into trains too. dd1 is fascinated with aliens and robots atm. no idea where ti came from, but heard her today asking dh all about aliens.

totally agree, jimjams. IMO It's important to take a step back and let children devise their own imaginative play as much as possible. You can still set your boundaries - no hitting, no putting swords near people's eyes etc.

Oh I so agree. It was a bit of a joke with my friend and I about my son who even as a little baby was absolutely unable to play with any toy in the way that it was designed to be played with while her son clearly had been reading all instructions carefully. My son makes daggers out of cars, spoons out of daggers and insists on going to bed cuddling his toy gun instead of a stuffed animal not because he's violent, but because it holds the same status in his world as a stuffed animal...it's a fun toy.

Stripey - agree with you here. Aggressive replica toys aren't to be encouraged. Yes children make play weapons out of sticks etc but a childs imagination can turn that stick from a weapon into a something else as the game moves on from violence. With a replica toy weapon the child is stuck with it. At my dd school one child came in with some plastic empty medicine bottles to play with!! The child could just about take off the safety top. Some of the children were concerned about him playing with medicine. One parent told the parents that this was a stupid 'toy' to give a child & they couldn't see the problem. They didn't remove the medicine bottles. I told the child to take the bottles to the teacher & she put them out of range. Just to say that at least your headteacher has acted on the issue.

IME pretend weapons made of sticks stay pretend weapons. When my boys want to change the game they simply throw their sticks away.

I agree with letting them play in their own way. DD and DS will play shops, families, dens etc together quite happily, and just as happily use the trident (Halloween leftover) and sword on each other. As long as no-one gets too badly hurt, I take a back seat. They very quickly work out their own boundaries and know the difference between play and real-life. Children learn through play of all kinds.