Daggers at school .. I am really mad

[stripey]

Yesterday I took ds to nursery and saw 2 boys one with a hook (from McDs) and one with a large plastic dagger (at least 15 inches long) waiting for nursery to start. They were poking each other and other children I was amazed as their mothers took no notice and carried on chatting. When the teacher came out to let the children in to class I told her I really didn't think it was appropriate for children to have daggers in school and she told me she would sort it out.

When I collected my son at 3pm I asked him if teacher had taken away the dagger he said "no the boys had them outside at break time and were poking them at kids". I was not happy at all

Today when I dropped my son off I didn't see the boys from yesterday or the daggers so as I was leaving I was amazed to see 2 boys walking up the path grinning and pointing daggers at me (these were smaller apparently from McDs). I was fuming and stopped their mothers and told them I felt bringing daggers into school was not appropriate - and I was going to make a complain about it. They looked shocked huffed and went on their way as though I was ridiculous for saying such a thing.

I have spoken to a few parents who support my view, the problem is the teacher doesn't seem to and I feel if she had told the class yesterday not to bring these things into school there wouldn't have been a problem today. I am going to take this further.

Am I over reacting or is it reasonable to assume a school should not allow this - my son is 4.

That's the one.

all toys are dangerous IMO

esp wands

I can see all points of view on this stripey, but I understand your concerns. The bit I'm very surprised about is the children taking the toy weapons into school and being allowed to play with them at breaktime. Schools I've worked in have had a "do not bring toys in to school" policy. This prevented them being lost, broken or "borrowed" and all the aggro this causes.

Ds1's nursery (attached to a school) follows this policy too and the nursery he went to previously did.

Exceptions to this were end of term "non-uniform" days when children could bring in one of their games to play, or a toy, but we'd always be specific that it should not be a toy weapon.

As a teacher (Oh dear I'm going to sound like an unreasonable old bag, but I'm not, honest )), I would confiscate these things as soon as I saw them. This was school policy and if parents asked I'd remind them of the policy, return said confiscated item and remind them that their children should leave their toys at home.

Of course children role play etc, but there's plenty of stuff in a nursery for them to be doing this role playing with. The toy daggers should stay at home IMO.

As another (ex) reception teacher here, I would also have confiscated any toys brought into school with the exception of a special teddy/comforter. I think by having a blanket 'no toys' policy, the teacher can tactfully deal with issues such as parents allowing toys into school which other parents might find inappropriate.

I've just scanned the messages- so shoot me if I'm wrong - but nobody seems to have mentioned the symbolism of 'pretending' to hurt someone. I feel that this isn't something that should be encouraged especially in today's climate. Just pretending to harm another individual - with whatever toy, surely isn't acceptable! Also, as a primary teacher I would have confiscated these toys and explained that even pretending to hurt someone isn't very nice.
In reply to Sozie's comment about daggers being in dressing up boxes, I would be utterly amazed if this was the case. The majority of stereotyped toys of most instances were taken out of dressing up boxes way back in the 80's.

Thanks to all the teachers who have replied as I now feel more justified in my thinking. I would have expected after speaking privately to the teacher yesterday that the issue would have been resolved by today. I think a lot of the confrontation could have been avoided had the teacher simply said nobody is to bring daggers to school tomorrow and taken away the offending dagger until school was over.

Unfortunately the teacher was off sick today so I couldn't speak to her directly, hopefully it will be resolved tomorrow as I am fairly sure that the school wouldn't defend allowing children to bring daggers to school.

Thanks for all of your comments as it has helped me to put the issue into perspective.

I just wanted to say how much I respect your response to differing opinions on such an emotive subject Stripey

It makes such a change when we can have a discussion without it descending into a squabble (despite a few jokes thrown in)

I've really enjoyed this thread .. thank you

What an excellent 'mature' thread without any huffiness!!

DS has one of those silly swords and they are quite harmless but the boys should not be taking toys to school IMO and intimidating children and you should speak to the teacher about it.

Thanks twiglett

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Hi Secur, just a question really, do you let your children whatch for example Peter Pan? The toys in question come from this Mcdonalds Disney promotion, and my DS1 absolutely loves Peter Pan, who fights off the baddies with a sword. I think the important thing here is to distinguish between play and reality, I in no way accept any violence in my house and with four children four and under that can be hard going. However my children all generally are very loving and caring towards eachother and although we have the odd battle they are few and far between. In role play my children often reinact Peter pan and I see no harm in this, they know it isn't real life, and I think it is great they choose to play in this way. I don't think I am a bad parent for encouraging this play.

Twiglett, I was thinking just the same about this thread, its nice to talk about things without huffiness .

I went to visit some cousins of mine a couple of months a go and there were a lot of "toy" weapons which ds1 (3) had never encountered before. He did join in all the play fighting with the various implements but I have to say, I just let him get on with it in that instance as I was in someone elses home and there was little I could do about it without causing offence. The children eventually got bored with these particular toys and moved on to a train set and a pop up play tunnel which they spent the rest of their time enjoying.

I'm glad you feel clearer about being able to discuss the issue with the teacher stripey, as it really isn't on for this stuff being brought in to school and used there.

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I think you might be over-reacting a bit - it's a natural part of boys (and girls) role playing, and I think kids are wrapped up a bit too much in cotton wool nowadays anyway. That being said, I certainly don't think they should be allowed in school - apart from balls and skipping ropes, I think toys should be left at the school gates.

I must agree that i don't think it is right for such toys to be brought into school, as it is not behaviour which should be encouraged especially when children are using it in a bullying manner. Secur, I can't believe no Peter Pan, I love Peter Pan. I think it is a little insulting to childrens intelligence to say they may find it difficult to distinguish between fiction and reality. My kids don't jump out of the window and think they can fly!! They are also very aware of what behaviour is acceptable, their boundaries are clear, even when role playing there is no way it would be acceptable to hit eachother. I think in some ways to shield children from violence completely even from films such as Peter Pan, is surely then going to make it difficult for them to handle if they ever come into contact with situations in reality, at what age is it that this is relaxed, if ever? Although violence is unacceptable I think it important that children are aware of its existence, my children asked about war the other day and I felt it my responsibility to tell them what I could in a way they would understand, how can you do this if you have no innocent situations to liken it to. hope this explains a little of where I am comin from x

Absolutely, kykidsmum. Well said.

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I agree that childrens childhoods shouldn't be tainted by violence and fear, however if my child asks me about something which may be on the news which is horrid, I will do my best to explain as I feel they would only worry about it more if I just fobbed them off. With the war thing, my twins came home from school wanting to buy poppies which I was glad to do, however they asked what they were for, and I explained they were to remember those who died in the war. Now yes this was very difficult to explain, however they were satisfied with my answer and we then went on to talk about something completely different. I don't think that children should be exposed to violence however I don't think it should be hidden, a vauable part of my childrens childhood is imaginative play and I don't see anything wrong with them wanting to ward of baddies!
I am in no hurry to expose my children to anything horrid but if asked I will be honest, I think it does them more harm to see it is okay to lie (my children are not easily fobbed off ).
My childrens childhoods are precious and I will endeavor to do everything I can to amke them as stress free and enjoyable as posssible, if this means they want to watch peter Pan then I am happy for them to !
I can also see your view point but I love Disney when I was a child, Robin Hood etc and I have grown up okay...Ithink!! I also loved cowboys and Indians and playing star wars with my brother, my brother and I never fought.

Does anyone else think we read far too much into play these days and spend too long worrying about silly little things? Playing with toy guns and swords does not mean the child will go out and pay with the real thing later on. Play fighting does not teach them to be violent. Both my 2 older brothers and I fought, wrestled, played with action men, threw bombs made out of lego at each other, had cap guns, swords and even, (when I was 10) used a real working air rifle in the back garden under strict parental supervision. Did we turn into gun wielding, knife toting violent maniacs? No we didn't.

Everyone makes their own parenting choices and it's not our place to criticise or try to change what other parents have chosen for their child. If the teacher and most parents of these boys do not have a problem with the daggers and fighting role play, why should they be forced to follow a minority wish? If it is indeed a minority - I don't know. TBH, the problem is not toy weapons, it's how the children are allowed to play with them. They need to be taught appropriate ways of playing with them.

When DS1 was in reeption last year, they held a seminar about boys play. Bascally it said that weaspons related play is a natural part of the way boys imaginative role-play develops. You can't stop it easily as they'll find ways to make their own weapons etc. Let them do it and they grow out of it.

IMHO you need to address how the boys play with things and make them understand that they shouldn't touch anyone with a toy weapon rather than take the weapons away.

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This is quite interesting. I have to say my views are diametrically opposed to Secur's.

I think play fighting is probably the most important aspect of play for boys. Play fighting is where they learn where the boundaries are.

We positively encourage play fighting in our house, with swords or of the rough and tumble variety. Both my children love it.

But the lesson about learning to control ourselves, comes from the fact that as soon as anyone gets hurt, (or even touched in the case of swords) the game immiediately stops. By doing this my DS is learning to control any impulsive tendencies he may have to go further.

I hope when he is older and may be in a dangerous situation, he will be savvy enough and strong enough to protect himself. Equally I hope that if he;s in a crowd of boys who are picking a fight or going too far, he will have enough self restraint and self-respect to walk away from the situation.

Life out there on the streets is not a bowl of cherries, and whilst we can protect our littlies from the harsh realities - we can't protect them for ever.

I want my children to grow up knowing where the line is and importanly to know when they are close to crossing it. I hope they will learn to walk away at that point!

I do however agree that school was an inappropriate place for these toys to be.

hi secur I also think that I have quite strong values and opinions regarding war and am very anti violence. However I came from a very open family where although I don't clearly remember i do not believe my parents would have turned off the news if I came in the room. As children we did not watch a great deal of TV, unless it was football or music, but even these have elements of violence and I guess thats really where my point lies. Violence how ever awful is aparent in so many every day parts of our life that I would find it very difficult to shelter my children from it completely, instead i chose to educate them about it. I can also see where are views are quite similar despite the obvious differences!!

I'm with soapbox ..

except we don't allow ready-made weapons in our house .. but if he builds a gun out of lego or similar I don't have an issue