Did using state schools over private make a difference in your experience?

[Bulblasagnes]

If you chose to use the state sector when you could afford private, for altruistic or idealistic reasons of wanting to participate in the state sector and support the betterment of the state sector for the benefit of everyone, do you think it actually made a difference to other children at your child’s school? Or to the school?

I have always planned on sending my DC to state schools all the way through. I am confident that with our support they would be fine academically and go onto achieve whatever they wanted. DH and I attended top universities and are both in highly skilled professional jobs. To our surprise after a few sharp pay rises we will be in a position to easily afford private secondary when the time comes. In addition, there is an all-round fantastic private school locally (a boys’ school, for DS, the oldest) which has brilliant facilities and teaching in sports, music, drama and so on, in addition to great academics.

Between the two options we have, I still don’t think it will necessarily affect university options, but I do think DS could have a lot of fun and pursue many activities to a high level at the private school, which he wouldn’t be able to at the state. I also think the private school would help with DS’s confidence issues.

My heart is still with the state school option but I want to be sure that depriving my DC of those experiences and possibilities at private school will really make a difference to others. Otherwise it just feels like I’m making them miss out for no reason.

A family member is a head teacher at a private school who took her children out of private (due to low key bullying) and into a state school and they were much happier because of it.
I was also the same, started primary in private school, was bullied so my parents put me in state where I was much happier.

My children will most likely go to state as I feel that every child should have the same start in life regardless of how much money their parents have even though we earn enough to afford it.

In principle I agree with you. If (average) state schools had a higher proportion of MC kids, standards would raise as there would be greater parental pressure. Behaviours and expectations would be better. Bad behaviour would be diluted if more of the class were well behaved. Look at the grammar school / secondary modern situation only a few decades ago.
However, I think you are sacrificing your child for the greater good and therein lies the rub. Most of us with choice ultimately put our own kids above our principles. I faced a similar dilemma and opted for private. If I'm honest I think you should choose private but fair play to you if you go for state.

A difficult dilemma, and you are asking yourself some searching questions. I’m in a similar decision zone too just now, though not as financially comfortable.

I’ve been persuaded that private schooling is intrinsically and systemically unfair. However, I think within that unfair system, one is 100% entitled, if not obliged, to act in one’s DC’s best interests. (No man ever refused a pay rise due to the gender pay gap.) Also, the unfairness is inescapable, be it through paying for catchment areas, tutoring, etc.

You mention lack of green spaces - I agree. I look at some of my nearby primary schools and the numbers of kids for the size of the playground is utterly dismaying.

If you can indeed easily afford it, you could consider a large donation to the school’s bursary fund to help others less fortunate?

We live in such uncertain times. What is the fiscal impact of Brexit and COVID going to do to the quality of state school provision - after a decade of austerity? How secure is my employment, really? What if there is surging inflation? What if universities develop American-style levels of tuition fees?

Consider what you’ll spend on private and think what you could buy instead. A bigger house, so that your DC can accrue more social confidence through entertaining friends? Really enriching holidays to other cultures?

Sometimes I wonder if private schooling doesn’t slightly rob children of the chance of achieving true success - how can you take pride in your accomplishments when you’ve had such a leg up. It can be quite sad that anything less than gleaming success might be cast as failure (to some extent my own experience - I felt I never justified myself or provided a good return on my parents’ investment in my private secondary education)

That all said, I think all you can do is research both schools and go with your gut instinct. Sounds like there’s pros and cons to both. But don’t assume too much moral responsibility... that lies way upstream. Lots of good and socially progressive people were privately educated.

Good luck with your choice.

We were in a similar situation and chose state. A big reason was because we didn’t want our child to grow up in over privileged bubble. Our DS was also very anti private school on fairness grounds (he is a budding socialist clearly!). My DH felt much more strongly about state than I did. I think we both know many people who went to private schools and have that air of entitlement and arrogance that it can sometimes bestow. I also know lots of lovely people who went to private school as well however. I’m still not sure if we made the right choice. But I’m sure I would have felt that the other way round as well.

I pretty much agree with you that private schools are ‘unfair’ but your top priority, your duty, is to send your dcs to the best school you can, whichever school that is. They can always go to a state 6th form. The longer days and after school activities at school rather than driving all over the place, as well as the sport and music are a massive plus for us!

@Verite1 Agree - I’ve worked with many (sometimes mediocre) entitled public school types over the years and I also have a deep aversion to such types! However to be fair there are also others who manage to be polite and confident without being arrogant tossers. I would be devastated if I sent my DC to private school and they ended up with those sorts of attitudes , its definitely a significant consideration for me.

Everything about your post suggests the private school would suit your son better. The only pro you’ve listed is ‘altruism’ which is all about you rather than him. If you have the money, that buys choices which makes you fortunate.

Well it’s not really about me either but our impact on society. I don’t personally benefit from that, I would just like to see a more just and equal society.

Balanced against that is my desire for my DC to have a wonderful and enjoyable school experience where they have the opportunity to pursue their interests in full and potentially discover many others. It’s hard.

OP, I think you should ask yourself where you think your DS will fit in best and be happiest, and that should drive your choice of school. I do totally get where you are coming from re your wider consideration of state v private, but I think your moral duty first and foremost is to send your DS to a school where he is likely to fit in and be happy. If following that principle leads you to choose the private school then so be it.

Interesting question, OP.

My dd is at a state comprehensive school. We could have afforded to send her to an independent school, but we didn't feel it was worth the investment. She is the kind of kid who will do anywhere.

I think that there have been many benefits to dd as a result of going to a state comprehensive. Not least, mixing with a very wide range of people, learning not to judge others and learning to value people's different strengths. I don't believe that she would have learned these lessons from an independent school, any more than she did from her very privileged state primary. She has mixed with a much more diverse cohort at secondary, and I'm proud of how she has developed as a result of this. She has much more empathy, respect for others and understanding of different circumstances than she would have done without that experience. Given that she is hoping to pursue a career in medicine, I believe that this learning has been really important for her.

With regard to the question of whether the school and/or other kids have benefited as a result of dd's presence, my initial thought was no, it won't have made any difference. However, on reflection, I think there probably have been benefits.

I know that my dd has benefited from having other bright, motivated kids in her cohort, so it stands to reason that other parents might feel the same about dd studying alongside their offspring. The more children in a school who are that way inclined, the more it will contribute to a positive learning culture that values hard work and academic success. I also know that dd's high aspirations for the future are starting to rub off on a couple of her friends, including one from a very disadvantaged background who is now considering options that he probably wouldn't have thought of previously. And I know that I have given many hours of my time as a school governor at dd's old primary school - something I probably wouldn't have bothered with if she had gone to an independent.

Many of dd's friends' parents have contributed to the school in different ways too - offering work experience opportunities, delivering specialist talks and workshops, volunteering to provide interview practice etc. Many of the parents who have contributed the most are the ones who probably could have gone private if they had chosen to. So yes, I do think it makes a positive difference to the school as a whole.

Thought provoking post, @alexashutup

I am by no means very affluent - we live in a two bed and our car is 17 years old - but it has crossed my mind how much my son’s whole class would benefit if (theoretically!) I supported it financially to the tune of 30% - 50% of what the private school option would cost.

In my own situation, I’m a solo parent, and it’s having the whole burden of my son’s non-school education and moral development on my shoulders that’s pushing me to consider private.

Very interesting philosophical question but so many things which are hard to gauge or hard to sort out.

As others have said, there are lots of different types of private schools but a whole lot more different state schools (and their catchments). Without knowing what your options are, no-one can say what's best for your son and your family so only you can decide.

In an ideal world, all schools would be as good as each other, behaviour/bullying/subject options etc would also all be equally as good; all parents would be able to support their children sufficiently and equally; all children would be able to achieve to their potential etc etc. Before you get anywhere near the private vs state question, there are vast differences between the secondary options even in a small geographic area let alone the fact that the child of a struggling parent/family and who has caring responsibilities is going to find education far less easy to access than a well-supported child from a family with plenty of time, money and energy.

Your child only has one chance so choose whatever you feel is the right choice for him.

If you opt for state and feel that you want to contribute, look at the Sutton Trust (www.suttontrust.com/support-us/) - it's a great educational charity which works to fight for social mobility opportunities for those who need it.

Thanks @GU24Mum. I feel very conflicted about it all and I just wish there wasn’t such a huge disparity in options, it just pushes those who can into the grammar and private sector.

My parents sent me to state school even though they could easily afford private (big lefties) and I am very very glad they did.
I ended up going to oxbridge so later met a lot of privately educated people and quite frankly found them on the whole to be lacking. I can't quite explain what it was. They were perfectly nice. They just had a very different way of acting, like they were trying to fit some mould. And no sense of the real world but an attitude that they knew something the rest of us didn't.
You know what it was like. It was like they thought they were wizards and the rest of us were muggles.
And I'm sure it'd be lovely to think you're a wizard, and your family and friends are wizards too. But I'd rather not live in a fairy tale.
I'm sure they'll be lots of people who disagree with me, mine is just one perspective. Just something maybe to consider.

I did very well despite going to a fairly crap state school but I don’t think I benefited really. I’d have loved to have had the opportunities to be pushed with a brighter cohort in a grammar or private school. I learnt to hide my abilities rather than really being pushed.

I think there can be excellent comps where students really thrive but I’d also say you have to be realistic about what a mediocre one might offer. I got a more realistic view of the world from my Saturday job and volunteering than I ever did through school where I largely stuck with other kids from similar demographics.

That is not to say I’m anti-state. My daughter is in a lovely primary that could rival some preps and you see the impact of having a really engaged parent population. I’m not quite so convinced about the effects of that at secondary level where there is less of a role for parents.

I could have written your op. In the end we have decided to send dd to the private school, despite our philosophical misgivings. The facilities and teaching of the extra curricular stuff that she loves are just so much better, whereas our local academically excellent state school simply doesn’t have the funds to provide those things.

We could continue to pay for coaching and clubs ourselves, as we do now, but it involves so much running around and often activities that the dc want to do clash, which is stressful for everyone. At the private school it’s all there. There is no time wasted, no eating a hurried sandwich in the back of the car, and no child waiting outside ballet because I’m late back from collecting the other one from running club.

When I wrote to the state school turning down her place, they wrote straight back thanking me for letting them know so quickly because it meant that her place could be swiftly given to a child on their waiting list. I have friends whose children are on waiting lists for other schools, so I know how stressful this is. So I may not be benefitting that school in the ways you describe in your op, but the benefit to the individual child who will get dd’s place is very tangible to someone. And that is a consolation.

I can't really comment based on my children's experience, as we are in the US, and the state schools here are actually often more academically proficient than the privates - in my area especially. So mine went to state school.

But to compare DH and I. He went to a top public boarding school while I went to a terrible comp (one student sent to Oxbridge in all the time the school existed).

He had a far better experience than I did. He had better teaching and far better extra-curricular activities. He was much happier at his school than I was at mine.

He came out of it well rounded, confident, not an entitled snob. I came out of mine under-confident, and hated almost every minute of it.

We both came out with pretty much the same A level grades, but I worked unbelievably hard for mine, whereas he slacked off a fair bit.

We both have had good careers, but he is much better at connecting with people from a wide range of social backgrounds - he deals with everyone from company presidents to college presidents to politicians to construction workers to hotel cleaners to architects to designers to shipping agents. He deals with difficult people particularly well.

I'm a bit shit at all that, especially company politics.

I do think his background set him up better for university and a career.

Just my anecdata.

Hello, I had to resurrect my mumsnet account to respond to this as I entirely get where you are coming from @Bulblasagnes. I come from a big family of lefty catholics who strongly believe you should be the change you want to see in the world. Pointing to your example, my brother sent his children to the local state school (very mixed school, lots of student deprivation) - they all did extremely well (e.g. one daughter was head girl and went to cambridge, one son studied medicine etc). What their achievements (and those of other motivated students) did was show younger pupils that they too could achieve these goals at their local school, whilst also lifting the aspirations of teachers for the student body - the impact of a handful of children in a year group getting onto competitive courses should not be underestimated. I get the impression that it is increasingly becoming a very desirable school (not due to the sole actions of my family, I hasten to add!!).

However, you should feel no guilt in the decision you make for your child, because either way you are acting from a self-less view-point (you want the best for your child and the best for the wider community - nobody can criticise you either way!). Sorry if you already mentioned this, but I'm not sure how long your lead-in time is for your DS going to school. I face a similar quandary in that my local school was in special measures just a few years ago (I have a long lead in time as my DS is not at primary school yet), so I've decided to join the governing body of the school and see if I can really help with improving it before he's eligible to join.

Perhaps even if you decide to go down the private school route, you could use your professional skills (which sound considerable) to help the local state school in some way?

We can afford fees but are so happy with our local schools and more importantly with the non stressed childhood out DC have had with no long journeys and little pressure to perform. They are achieving, sporty, creative, happy and finding niches that suit them, and love being part of a local community and having so many friends that they can easily walk to/ take a bus to see. We are nearing the next stage of university and I can see that their friends who were peeled off to fee paying schools are doing no better and are going to end up at the very same places as them! And arguably have suffered more mental health issues along the way.
DH and I both went to fee paying schools so we did think very seriously about whether we were ‘letting them down’ by not doing the same but we now feel they have been extraordinarily privileged by being allowed to have a very normal and happy childhood and that being at a comp has given them the resilience and self starting attitude they will need at university and beyond.

@Bulblasagnes
Have you read Kate Clanchey’s book ‘Some Kids I have taught and what they taught me’ - I absolutely loved it and so have lots of others I know. Utterly inspiring and so reassuring when she talks about her own experiences of choosing a school for her son. X

My DCs are private and I like the bubble that they're in, so many people have shitty school experiences I just want them to be happy. You be don't have to look too far beyond your own nose to see depravity and it's down to you as a family to open up the world to them, good and not so good, to help them make informed choices about their future.

@Moules yes I’m already working with our local state school (non-selective in a deprived area with some small better off areas). Support is based around high aspiration, normalising Oxbridge and supporting elite university applications. Irrespective of whether my DC go to this school in future I’m so excited about this work and really hope to see tangible results in the coming years. It’s a new school so we have a chance to set a high standard for what’s achievable from the off.

If the choice is private vs mediocre state, then I would choose private. I would choose state if it was a good state school.

That is so wonderful to hear @Bulblasagnes ! You are doing a great thing. I hope all works out with your own decision and that the local school becomes such a success that future families will have no such dilemma.

My dc go/went to a very good comp state school and I would say that though they're good for many types of extracurricular activities, they are poor for sport.
On the whole though I don't regret them going state as in all honesty I feel the DCs have mixed with the full range of society, not just the wealthy, which is important imo.