Did using state schools over private make a difference in your experience?

[Bulblasagnes]

If you chose to use the state sector when you could afford private, for altruistic or idealistic reasons of wanting to participate in the state sector and support the betterment of the state sector for the benefit of everyone, do you think it actually made a difference to other children at your child’s school? Or to the school?

I have always planned on sending my DC to state schools all the way through. I am confident that with our support they would be fine academically and go onto achieve whatever they wanted. DH and I attended top universities and are both in highly skilled professional jobs. To our surprise after a few sharp pay rises we will be in a position to easily afford private secondary when the time comes. In addition, there is an all-round fantastic private school locally (a boys’ school, for DS, the oldest) which has brilliant facilities and teaching in sports, music, drama and so on, in addition to great academics.

Between the two options we have, I still don’t think it will necessarily affect university options, but I do think DS could have a lot of fun and pursue many activities to a high level at the private school, which he wouldn’t be able to at the state. I also think the private school would help with DS’s confidence issues.

My heart is still with the state school option but I want to be sure that depriving my DC of those experiences and possibilities at private school will really make a difference to others. Otherwise it just feels like I’m making them miss out for no reason.

@randomsabreuse

I'd suggest that some private secondary schools with generous bursaries and scholarships will be substantially more diverse than an ultra desirable state school with a small leafy catchment... as buying a house in catchment requires far more deposit and income for mortgage than paying the fees.

This possibly also applies in Scotland for certain schools (Jordanhill, Douglas Academy, Bearsden Academy) where even modest housing in catchment is £££!

I totally disagree with this. Those who benefit from bursaries are already in a good position. Those who are in really disadvantaged environments do not benefit from these bursaries at all.

As I said earlier, when you can from a background like mine you don't know these opportunities exist at all. These private secondary schools are elitists by nature. The fact that within the very small minority that attend them, a super small minority may come from a different background does not equate to 'diversity'. They are still incredibly selective and only available for very few. At least in the UK.

My school was a middling private school. Most common demographic was children of doctors but my best mate (generally top in the year) came to the UK as an asylum seeker speaking no English 2 years before passing the entrance exam. There were a lot of bursaries. Wasn't as diverse as most comprehensive schools, probably more diverse than some of the super selective state grammars.

I'm not comparing with a normal state school where the catchment usually has some affordable and HA/council housing areas but with the particularly leafy catchments either in London and presumably some rural areas too.

I didn’t really know what to expect when we sent 2 of our DC private.
DH and I are state educated.
But we found ourselves warming a fair bit of money so decided it would be churlish not to spend a bit of it on education.
In the end those private schools did turn out much better than the state ones we used (for the other D.C.) but we still got what we needed out of the state schools (shorter hours and less academic work).

@camaleon
You are rather assuming that parents all think state isn’t up to much, so they pay. My DD did have a place at the local grammar but we felt it was very large and wanted a school where DD might fit in better. It was all about DD. I do think the educational outcomes from the grammar are great and we chose a private school that was similar. However DD could join in with what she wanted and there was no rationing for school trips or taking part in drama or music for example. She saw school as a second home but if we didn’t have the money, we would have stayed in the state system. Which we had used for YR to Y6.

I think it’s very difficult for dc from disadvantaged backgrounds to know everything that’s available. I even saw dc at the local grammars that made less than great choices regarding universities and courses. I also noticed the overseas girls were very focussed on the very best universities at DDs private school.

If I’m honest, dd would have been ok anywhere but we thought she would enjoy the school she went to more than the state option.

I am sorry but the saying "Bright kids will do well in any school" is absolutely rubbish. Rather it should read "Bright kids will do well in any GOOD school". There are some downright awful schools where just being bright will make little difference. Sure the odd super bright kid might make it through every other year but most wouldn't.

@Elij00 true. And also incorrect to say that a child will be happier at a fee paying school. So many posters have spoken about their children who haven’t been.

@Aboutnow

Absolutely...As I said in one of my posts here, that perception comes from the fact that the majority of the population were educated at state schools so you are far more likely to come across sn unhappy ex state student than you are private students.

It's like when posters say they were bullied at their comprehensives for being SWOTS when we know at that many comprehensives up and down the country, the most celebrated are the SWOTS.

@Elij00

Bright resilient and independent minded children will do well anywhere providing they have engaged parents who can check the syllabus.

I would have struggled at a school where academic achievement was not valued by my peers - I wasn't particularly resilient. An easily led bright child might well turn their energies to playing up or being the class clown if the culture admired the joker.

My year at my school was a massive outlier in results - we jumped up 100+ places in the league table compared with the years either side (which is where the school sat traditionally). Selective school, over 100 in a year. My theory on why this happened is that the "cool" girls who were into clubbing were also super intelligent so if you wanted to be in the same sets as the "cool" lot you needed to work hard - so it was "cool" to be in top sets and work to be there. Then there was the usual number of nerdy swots as well. Year above the cooler kids were a bit naughtier - and the culture was more rebellious.

My DC are very unlikely to go private. We don't really have the money and we very much doubt the added value of "normal" private schools. When we decide on secondary we will be considering culture and whether DC need "competition" to do their best or if they would coast. Some DC thrive on competition, others would be happier as big fish in a less fierce pool!

What all of that means is that if you can, find the right school for dc. If you have money, you have choice of the better state or independent schools.

It’s long been established that progress is allied to good teaching and home background. Poor schools can often not realise the best results from DC and a big minus progress 8 demonstrates this. Bright kids might be ok but not as good as they might have been. Money gets you out of that environment.

It is worth saying that the vast majority of dc like their schools! State or private. Most dc are not let down but a minority are. We don’t have enough great teachers or quality school leadership. If that can be changed and dc in the worst schools get a better deal, then we might all be better off.

Bright resilient and independent minded children will do well anywhere providing they have engaged parents who can check the syllabus.

Untrue. Some students with SEND really won’t be able to do well anywhere - or are you excluding them from your descriptors of bright, resilient and independent-minded? If you are, that would be a mistake. I know teens with some types of SEND who are all those things but still have say dyslexia or autism (“high functioning”, although that isn’t used these days) that means they’re not going to do well in every environment.

And teenagers without SEND also can change radically throughout their teens due to hormones, peers and home life. A bright, resilient, independently-minded 11 year old may become withdrawn and apathetic at 15.

I also disagree that the vast majority of students like their schools. I’d be really surprised if that was the case. Many students don’t like school, even if their individual schools are objectively good.

Something utterly relevant important I may have missed being mentioned on this thread: class size. It’s (almost) always smaller in private mainstream schools. Makes a massive difference for many. It’s a privilege those in state schools and their teachers don’t get, and if I could make class sizes smaller for all I would.

@JunoTurner

I'm not sure "resilient" is the right term, but what I was trying to say is that there are some students who will get fantastic grades whatever school they go to. Just being bright isn't enough. You'd need to not care what others think, have amazing self motivation and organisational skills and the patience to check the syllabus for yourself (DH saved himself from failing an A-Level by spotting that the teacher at his desirable state school had missed a chunk of the syllabus and learned it independently - it came up).

Most children need some care in the choice of school, a very few do not.

I grant you that a very small percentage are likely get good grades regardless of which school they go to.

@randomsabreuse
I agree hence why I said the odd Child will probably overachieve. However the majority of the Bright ones will fall through the cracks at awful schools as your peer group+learning environment are just as if not more important than Parental Input most especially at secondary school level.

As Presentingpercy noted, they(poor schools) will often not get the best result for your DC and I'm sure that's what all parents want. That's the reason why uni give Contextual offers to certain schools.

I would love to see any evidence that the majority of DC do not like their schools. From my observations from visiting many schools when I was working DC seem happy and thriving. There will always be some who struggle and are not in the right environment but it’s a tiny minority. Often sen children in my experience and the tiny few that are permanently excluded but often they have sen too. But certainly never a majority. The vast majority will do well and be happy at school.

@Bulblasagnes I think if my 2 sons had gone to private school they'd be doing the sport the school wanted them to do (rugby, cricket, cross country) rather than the sport they've found outside of school and love and are both now on the national talent pathway for. My eldest got a full suite of top grades in the 2020 school-assessed GCSE's, so I certainly have no regrets on that score.

If they had gone to private school I would have needed to work full time, rather than part time. Working part time has meant I could be at home when they walk through the door each day (something that was important to me, having experienced coming home to an empty house myself as a teenager). It has also meant I have time to be a school governor and directly contribute to the success of the school. But that 'under the bonnet' experience has also made me less idealistic about state comprehensive schools. They are chronically underfunded and it shows itself in many different ways.

I’m quite happy with the private school offering of sport, it seems more than enough from my perspective! I’m sure there’s lots of other options out there but they don’t have to have every opportunity under the sun.

Personally I wouldn’t reduce my work hours as I wouldn’t want to suffer the “mum penalty” that inevitably comes with doing so within my field. Also, I like my job and it doesn’t lend itself to part-time work. As I said, we will have the surplus funds and it’s just a question of whether we use it for school rather than just sitting on it.

@Bulblasagnes

I’m quite happy with the private school offering of sport, it seems more than enough from my perspective! I’m sure there’s lots of other options out there but they don’t have to have every opportunity under the sun.

Personally I wouldn’t reduce my work hours as I wouldn’t want to suffer the “mum penalty” that inevitably comes with doing so within my field. Also, I like my job and it doesn’t lend itself to part-time work. As I said, we will have the surplus funds and it’s just a question of whether we use it for school rather than just sitting on it.

If you do use a state school, consider giving generously to any voluntary school fund. That is one way to contribute to the overall success of the school.

Yes I’m already thinking of donating to the local school whether or not I use it. I expect a donation of both time and money will have the most impact.

@PresentingPercy

I would love to see any evidence that the majority of DC do not like their schools. From my observations from visiting many schools when I was working DC seem happy and thriving. There will always be some who struggle and are not in the right environment but it’s a tiny minority. Often sen children in my experience and the tiny few that are permanently excluded but often they have sen too. But certainly never a majority. The vast majority will do well and be happy at school.

What job was that Percy?

Give the state school a go and move to the private school if you feel that it isn't working. You can still invest in the extra-curricular activities outside of school (e.g. local sports clubs, reading groups, music lessons etc). I went to a state grammar school so feel that I sort of had the best of both worlds... there was a mix of all classes but a very big focus on academic attainment and success. I was very in touch with the real world from a young age and am confident mixing with all walks of life. That is an invaluable school which I personally believe a lot of private school children don't have (it certainly seemed that way when I went to university).

This was very compelling in The Times today - we have been seeing this with our friends' daughter recently who is 17 - she tries to hide who she is as she is embarrassed by it. It seems such a shame, like children are being put into this elite minority without a choice in the matter and then spending their life trying to back track.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/has-private-educations-bubble-burst-cbcdlxn3b

burpees has this not always been the case? We had a housemate at uni who was a grade A plonker from Eton. I don't think we are learning anything new here...

I think there are good and bad state and private schools. And some state schools are not really state schools as you need alot of ££ to get into the catchment area. Friends of ours in North London have a 180m radius catchment area for their outstanding primary school. There is no social housing in the catchment and the house prices are £1million and up. It may be ethnically diverse but its certainly not socio-economically diverse.

We live in a very different neighbourhood which is predominantly white working class and plenty of social housing and FSM. No outstanding schools around here so we can buy a nice house with alot less ££ and pay for private school. We went to the state school first and stayed as long as possible and then chose to switch to private.

Main advantage of the private rather state school is the much broader curriculum (as far as I can see).

@MrPickles73
Of course there are issues in both sectors of education nothing new there.
I just felt this highlighted how sad to have to deny who you are because there is such a strong feeling of anti elitism now in society - a stigma some children might not have picked to be saddled with given the choice (and unable to see if for themselves as only children.) I fear it is a increasingly a minority of the population that is going to be saddled with more and more negative feelings towards them through no fault of their own.

burpees to be honest the chap I met from Eton certainly hadn't been designed for 'the wider world'. And children have always been taunted for 'speaking posh'. It will be interesting to see how things pan out with the latest thing about boys schools and whether this boosts all girls schools.