Did using state schools over private make a difference in your experience?

[Bulblasagnes]

If you chose to use the state sector when you could afford private, for altruistic or idealistic reasons of wanting to participate in the state sector and support the betterment of the state sector for the benefit of everyone, do you think it actually made a difference to other children at your child’s school? Or to the school?

I have always planned on sending my DC to state schools all the way through. I am confident that with our support they would be fine academically and go onto achieve whatever they wanted. DH and I attended top universities and are both in highly skilled professional jobs. To our surprise after a few sharp pay rises we will be in a position to easily afford private secondary when the time comes. In addition, there is an all-round fantastic private school locally (a boys’ school, for DS, the oldest) which has brilliant facilities and teaching in sports, music, drama and so on, in addition to great academics.

Between the two options we have, I still don’t think it will necessarily affect university options, but I do think DS could have a lot of fun and pursue many activities to a high level at the private school, which he wouldn’t be able to at the state. I also think the private school would help with DS’s confidence issues.

My heart is still with the state school option but I want to be sure that depriving my DC of those experiences and possibilities at private school will really make a difference to others. Otherwise it just feels like I’m making them miss out for no reason.

@Bulblasagnes

I’m not saying the state schools are fine for everyone else but not good enough for my own kids, I’m saying some state schools are subpar for everyone who attends them and that’s a huge shame but not something I can do a whole lot about. I am actually actively supporting my local secondary state without my kids attending it so hopefully those children will still benefit from what DH and I can offer even if we don’t actually send our DC there (when they reach that age). It doesn’t actually have to be all or nothing you know

Keep doing what you're doing, you sound like you are doing a great job for your dc... I totally agree that not all state experiences are the same, I 100% agree that private is a totally different ball game especially when it comes to the networking it can bring in later life, confidence & sports facilities.... I wasn't having a go at you, I was just highlighting my experience with formerly extremely "anti private" parents & how everything literally changed the second their dc were born!

Also good on you for being so forward thinking & helping out at the potential future state, I'm sure it's very much appreciated x

'And the why not is because I fundamentally don’t believe it’s good for society'

I do agree its not fair that not all children get the same opportunities. When I was a child some children got free places at private schools via the assisted places schemes which I thought the labour government got rid of? However it also has to be recognised that families have different priorities. Alot of our friends in London bought v expensive houses close to outstanding state schools so as to get free education. Lots of other families either don't have an outstanding school near them nor can't afford the million pound house to get in the catchment area. Is this fair either? Our nearest outstanding primary is 25 miles away. We have prioritised education over a million pound house...

@Cheeryblossom1 fair enough, I agree it’s not nice and it is easy to judge and have strong views when you’re not personally impacted. I know I’ve also judged choices at times and even if I’m hopefully not doing quite the same about-turn (my DC are still going state through primary and it’s only in the latter stages of primary for DC1 that I’m considering private for secondary when faced with our very extreme options here) I do regret any past judgements.

Unless you are a labour politician I really dont think it's a dilemma tbh.
Choosing to send your DC on moral grounds will Make a marginal impact.
The benefit of private education to you child will far outweigh it.
I am left of centre. I could have afforded to privately educated DC but the difference between private and state options, plus the fact that it would have been a sacrifice meant state was our choice.

@cherryblossom1 we may well be sending our dc to private secondary yet, no issue whatsoever in providing them with the best education that suits them... I'm just glad I held my cards close to my chest pre dc & never entered the private /public debate with our circle of friends & have no sweeping statements or generalisations to back track on!
So far so good for our dc in state but they are young & time will tell.

@Bulblasagnes

There is a strong view that having middle class children attend normal (non-grammar) state schools helps those schools, whether by having a larger group of interested kids and proactive parents at the school or parental pressure on the school leadership. If better off parents have a stake in state schools rather than being able to opt out by going private, they are more likely to prioritise schooling at a political level which puts pressure on the government to do more to improve state schools for everyone. I’m paraphrasing but there is a lot of literature out there in this topic.

However on the other hand I’ve been reading a lot about meritocracy recently and how there is no real meritocracy in this country, only a few kids that manage to break out of the path our society has pre-destined for them. It’s really depressing but it’s also making me think that if it’s not going to make a difference anyway why am I sacrificing something that could be so nice for my DC.

I think it’s one of those issues which makes a massive difference across the population, but individual/per school, the difference will be negligible. So, depends if you want to make an ideological decision or not!

I think ideology is all very well if you have good state schools available to you. Many are extremely fortunate to be in that position. Some not.

I think what I mean is that I and many parents at our schools make decisions based on a more pragmatic basis, based on the options directly before us.

How do you ‘help out’ at a local state school if you’re kids aren’t there? Are you a governor?

DoubleTweenQueen quite.

No, I got in touch with the school about running a programme to help students get into top universities. Coincidentally I came across this article the other day which is very similar to what we’re planning (and so inspiring!!).

I think people's ideals do tend to change over time, partly as a result of self interest and partly through becoming more aware of realities. We chose private over grammar, when I never thought years ago that I would. I think a part of that decision was realising just how unfair the state system is. Around here, the kids who are bright and have money for prep school or 11+ tutoring tend to go to the grammars. The less bright kids with money and home support either 'find god' or move into the tiny non-church catchments of the excellent religious secondaries (or go private). The kids with money who don't go to grammars supplement their education with lots of tutoring and after school activities. The idea of any kind of level playing field in the state sector is laughable. In that context, in which we would have sent DS to a super selective grammar if we'd stayed in state, it didn't really feel like a particularly different/less ethical decision to go private. (Arguably, we also freed up our grammar place for another child, though it probably went to another well off child, on the balance of probabilities.)

"putting pressure on teachers" ! What a horrible idea why would you even think of doing that ?

starhatmater your post made me smile because you could have described my school to a tee. V active pta (run in a way that would put some management consultancies to shame and yes we do have an annual ball) lots of parents who probably would have liked a prep and a chunk of parents who do state until 8. I’ve never really thought of the potential downsides of that before.

I think deep down in her heart, the OP already knows which of kind of school Her Dc wil be attending. As I said already, If I were in Her shoes? I'd be going private.

I wish everyone in the country had the option of an outstanding state school close by as that will make the decision easier for parents. Unfortunately many don't have that luxury. Add to the fact that the difference between an outstanding school and a poor one is more pronounced in the state sector, then you'd see why many are going private. For example given the choice of the worst state school in the country and worst private, pretty much all will choose state.

On the other hand, I think state schools get such a bad rep because not only do they vastly outnumber private schools, they also educate the majority of the population(a vast number of the population don't even know a single Independent educated person). This means for the majority of us our bad experiences is likely to have taken place in a state environment which intentionally or unintentionally forms our negative thoughts towards that particular sector hence the numerous "I was bullied for being a geek' thread.

Mine are both at state grammar. One is at a super selective. Both I personally tutored. I went to a shit comp and have done very well in life and career but I was utterly miserable and bullied at school as I was in a minority. Of course there are bullies everywhere but at my school, only 10% left with any GCSEs above grade D. So it depends on your local state options, what their demographic is. What do you mean by good?. I can 'easily' afford private for both my two but choose not to as I think outcomes would be same . However I'm after an academic school, with a private school feel with a strong ethos on achievement and expectations so Grammar school was an excellent solution. Plus I don't have to pay for it. Although I do sink in a fair few ££££ to the school coffers as charity donations. I'm sure many here would not agree with me but after all, I'm just wanting to do what's best for DC.

Although private schools have many upsides, they also have downsides, which many are blind to.

All the support they offer is wonderful and do make it hard to fail. However, this safety net does mean some children fail to take much responsibility for their own learning and really struggle at Uni. In addition (if you care), at private school the vast majority of pupils come from a small demographic of wealthy homes (yes, I know there are some bursary students, and some sacrifice to pay fees, but the majority don’t). So, your child may only know wealthy middle class people. ‘Everyone’s Invited’ has rather shown up the culture of entitlement for some (not all).

Of course, the upside is smaller (although not always small) classes, plenty of support and loads or extra curricular sport, drama and enrichment.

State schools do finish earlier so, with effort, the extra curricular can be provided by parents out of school (sports clubs, drama groups etc).

It is really horses for courses. It also very much depends on the particular state or private school.

This was in today’s Telegraph

www.telegraph.co.uk/education/0/private-schools-really-worth-money/

Have you spoken to your children about their preferences? Which is the better school? I would use the answers to those two questions to choose over an ideology.

@Aboutnow can't read it due to pay wall, but am I right in guessing that the conclusion is 'maybe/sometimes'?

@hotorcold Spot on! With the major caveat that you can neither predict nor test the benefits, or otherwise, on an individual child (i.e. yours)

I've been wondering the same thing OP, and have considered starting a similar thread. My DS has been in state primary and overall, the experience has been decidedly mixed. He's benefited socially from being in a massive primary (4 form entry) and is confident and resilient as a result, but academically it's been a bit rubbish. We have considered state and private options for secondary in September, but he was adamant that he wanted to stay with his cohort and join the local comp with his friends. It's been a bit of a tricky decision all round, since due to covid restrictions we weren't able to view the local state schools and have had to make a decision purely on word of mouth and the online open days. We took him to a local private school, but he loathed it and said he didn't want to go to a fee-paying school (like PP he's obviously been listening to our political rants over the years and has developed his own moral compass).

I'm very conflicted about it all. On the one hand, like you, I believe that if all MC / wealthy children attended state schools (as they do in other countries) the system as a whole would benefit. However, that holds no water on a personal level, and as someone who went to a mix of private and state schools, I know I benefited in very different ways from both experiences. The former gave me great straight-A grades that I suspect I wouldn't have achieved in state (I'm basically a bit lazy and prone to mucking about), but the latter opened my mind to a social class that I never would have known existed. My friends and I from that state school went on to have highly successful creative careers, whilst my privately educated friends went for financial services, made a fortune, but dropped out and married well at the first opportunity.

In an ideal world, I'd send my kids to a great state school, they'd mix with all sorts and have a well-rounded sense of who they are and their own place in society (with the responsibilities that entails). To me, private is the fall-back option for if the state option doesn't work out. It's still, having read as much as I can on the subject and talked to as many people as possible, our second option. I can't shake the feeling I had when I viewed one of the local private schools, when I stood in their palatial library and wanted to cry. I felt so overwhelmed by the unfairness of it all. I still do. My kids already live in a great house, in a lovely part of town, they play any sport they wish and travel (in normal times) widely. They're already steeped in privilege. I think it's enough.

DS1 will start at the local comp in September. . Wish us luck!

Version4needsabitofwork your ds will be fine. I left my shit comp with 9 GCSEs, 6 As and Bs having experienced 5 years if virtually no classroom teaching in a sink school where 80% were on free school meals. I was just one of 10 pupils out of 100 to get any GCSEs. If a child wants it bad enough a bright child will do 'well' anywhere. The downside was it took me 10years to build confidence and know the tricks to climb the career ladder having absolutely no role models in my life and that time who put a suit on to go to work, other than the teachers I left behind. So I'm sure your ds will be in fine. His won't be a sink school. He'll be just fine.

I went to a great state school with Oxbridge leavers to match many-a-private school but I still suffered from quite severe confidence issues when I started my first graduate job, coming up against super confident kids from great private schools and feeling totally out of place. I’d love it if my kids didn’t have to go through that, it’s not a nice feeling.

@Version4needsabitofwork I agree, the unfairness of it all is overwhelming, when you stop to think about it.