Are top private schools getting fewer oxbridge offers?

[Ijustwanttoask]

Just read in the papers about the drop in Oxbridge offers to Eton in the last few years. Is there a same trend for other big name public schools and top London day schools too?

In the past years, these schools generally happily announce the numbers of Oxbridge offers they get around this time of the year but I haven't seen much for 2021.

* Title edited by MNHQ by request* **

@Zandathepanda

threelittlepandas did Oxford actually say that?! 11? There is an element of luck in getting in (eg. Feeling ill/bad period/examination marked wrong/bereavement) so the thought of spending 6-7 years with your parents driving you to one thing? That’s a mental health nightmare for the child and parents if they don’t get in.

They will learn to get ready, to apply and keep other options open; then they will fail to get in, will need to be ready to move on and will have to come up with new strategies and new plans. Why is everything a mental health crisis? Whatever happened to teaching your children agility and resilience in the face of failure?

@Thewithesarehere Have you read some of the threads on higher education? There are lots of very upset parents and pupils who don’t get in. Unfortunately self harm and suicide statistics are going up particularly amongst teenage girls and the Samaritans say it is linked to academic pressure. I am with you on building resilience etc but there is a mental health crisis. And I feel for the children whose parents push them from age 11 if they are taking that advice from Oxford (if it is correct).
The pupils I taught and I have seen go to Oxbridge from state schools, started focusing on the process in Year 12.
I know my daughter’s state school have a talk about Feb/March time in Year 12 to start the ball rolling.

[quote Zandathepanda]@Thewithesarehere Have you read some of the threads on higher education? There are lots of very upset parents and pupils who don’t get in. Unfortunately self harm and suicide statistics are going up particularly amongst teenage girls and the Samaritans say it is linked to academic pressure. I am with you on building resilience etc but there is a mental health crisis. And I feel for the children whose parents push them from age 11 if they are taking that advice from Oxford (if it is correct).
The pupils I taught and I have seen go to Oxbridge from state schools, started focusing on the process in Year 12.
I know my daughter’s state school have a talk about Feb/March time in Year 12 to start the ball rolling.[/quote]
I will check these threads.
In the context of 2020, I think we have a huge mental health crisis at our hands and that must be addressed ASAP.

Interestingly pupils’ mental health got better during 2020.
sphr.nihr.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Young-Peoples-Mental-Health-during-the-COVID-19-Pandemic-Report.pdf

Fantastic news if so

Are there any stats regarding pupils applying and not getting in from private v state?

[quote Zandathepanda]Interestingly pupils’ mental health got better during 2020.
sphr.nihr.ac.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/Young-Peoples-Mental-Health-during-the-COVID-19-Pandemic-Report.pdf[/quote]
That’s really old. We’d barely started first lockdown post Easter holidays

Participants were contacted by their schools in April/May 2020 during lockdown

@11112222

Are there any stats regarding pupils applying and not getting in from private v state?

Oxford and Cambridge do publish this information after each cycle is complete. Obviously this year's will be published after results day.

@11112222

Are there any stats regarding pupils applying and not getting in from private v state?

@11112222 Oxford publishes the stats and the acceptance rates from both sectors is comparable.

The difference is two things:

1. private school students apply disproportionately compared to the total their share of the national pupil population which is only 17% of A-level students
2. private school students also apply disproportionately relative to their share of the top grades required for entry which is only circa 25%

The interesting stats are those broken down by ethnicity - certain groups seem to have a much higher acceptance rate than others - and that also seems to follow the socio-economic trajectory of the different communities.

[quote thetell]@houselikeashed I think posters were talking about GCSE's not A Levels? All A Levels are the same.[/quote]
Except one private school teacher told me his school was switching to a new Chemistry exam board for A level because it was easier!

BAME students get a disproportionately higher share of AAA grades and above relative to their share of the population compared to white students.

BAME students overall admissions rate is in line with their overall disproportionate share of top grades though Asian students are somewhat under represented within this overall figure (and under apply).

Overall BAME offer rates are lower though than white students for Oxford though not dramatically so.

The biggest disparity in admission relative to top grades earned is private school versus state school and the north / south regional divide.

mmm- so, I know a teenager who might be offered an amazing scholarship for A levels/ private sixth form. Should she turn it down as would 'take away' from the state education she has had and disadvantage her when applying to universities? [State options good at sixth form level in her area] but she was put forward for this opportunity due to her potential and her current school being in a disadvantaged area...Interesting...

@DinkyDaisy

mmm- so, I know a teenager who might be offered an amazing scholarship for A levels/ private sixth form. Should she turn it down as would 'take away' from the state education she has had and disadvantage her when applying to universities? [State options good at sixth form level in her area] but she was put forward for this opportunity due to her potential and her current school being in a disadvantaged area...Interesting...

No because it is the school at which they take their GCSEs that Oxbridge look at for contextualisation.

Thank you SeasonFinale. That is really reassuring to know.

@seasonfinale that’s really interesting and I didn’t know that. So if you go to a private school and then switch to a state school in a deprived area you will be asked for higher grades at A level than your class mates, even though you are now receiving exactly the same education?

@southlondonmummy that’s also really interesting too - so on average, None Asian BAME student in the U.K. achieve the highest A Level results? This is particularly interesting when you compare it to the US as the opposite is true, hence the fact that different SAT results are asked for from the Ivy leagues depending on ethnicity (with Asian students requiring higher scores than white students who require higher scores than students of colour)....

No if schools qualify for contextual offers (like the ones on Bristol's list) then you will get a contextual offer.

I was talking about contextualisation of scores for Oxbridge where the GCSEs will be contextualised on where you sat your GCSEs. So it will be given a score based on what is the norm for the school where you took the GCSEs.

None Asian BAME student in the U.K. achieve the highest A Level results? I've read the reverse. See here.

So, moving from private to state may be an advantage to university applications but a state pupil getting a full scholarship to private from a state, may not disadvantage them with applications?

You have to give your whole school history so a sixth form move won’t swing it

Thanks- trying to get my head round it all...

@makemineatriple765

Asian students are under-represented at Oxford relative to the share of top grades they achieve but the acceptance rate is on par with other groups so like I said its because they under-apply to the university relative to others. There isn't a different standard for them due to race.

Every ethnicity of student at Oxford has to achieve the required grades to get in though some are slightly over or slightly under represented at a population level relative to the proportion the A-level grades achieved.

So for instance, 5% of total top grades (across everyone) may be achieved by ethnicity A, but lets say lots of students from ethnicity A apply to Oxford and so they make up 7% of applicants with the required grades and offers (they disproportionately apply to Oxford).

Another group might represent 10% of total top grades but only represent 8% of the applicants and offers. They under-apply relative to their share of the top grades and this could be for any number of reasons.

Anyway, as concerns Oxbridge, there isn't a major issue one way or another. They could do more outreach to Asian students to encourage more applicants but the under representation is I think just a few percentage points so its nothing hugely significant.

Overall BAME students earn more of the top grades than their share of the general population but they are also make up a larger share of Oxford admissions.

The main significant disparities between those earning top grades and admissions is state vs private and north and south regionally.

I don't know if this is helpful but my son is currently studying at Oxford from an 11-18 Scottish comp. He still had the same high grade requirements, admission test score and interview score as all other applicants He says the vast majority of his friends are state educated, although many come from grammar schools. A reasonable proportion are also internationals.

@Newgirls

You have to give your whole school history so a sixth form move won’t swing it

that is true for Oxbridge only. So to give an example - our local private school will get an offer for Geography at Bristol of AAB, say. The local state sixth form will get an offer for Geography at Bristol of ABB. Exeter even lower - BBB. So if your kid wants to do Geography at Exeter it could be said that it is not worth paying to get AAB. Might as well get BBB for free and still go.

Asian students are under-represented at Oxford relative to the share of top grades they achieve but the acceptance rate is on par with other groups so like I said its because they under-apply to the university relative to others. There isn't a different standard for them due to race. I suspect they're highly over-represented at places like Imperial though?