Are top private schools getting fewer oxbridge offers?

[Ijustwanttoask]

Just read in the papers about the drop in Oxbridge offers to Eton in the last few years. Is there a same trend for other big name public schools and top London day schools too?

In the past years, these schools generally happily announce the numbers of Oxbridge offers they get around this time of the year but I haven't seen much for 2021.

* Title edited by MNHQ by request* **

@Thewithesarehere I think that some of the things that fee paying schools market themselves as providing eg 'resilient' children - are actually a natural product of coming up through the state system especially in non selective schools. I took my vastly expensive education completely for granted to my undying shame whereas my children are absolute grafters and know much more about dealing with a range of personalities, 'choosing to learn' in an environment that isn't always pampering to your own learning or forcing you to work, having to fight for your rights rather than have a parent (customer) complain. Their attitude to life is so much better than mine was and it definitely isn't my parenting it is the skills they have learnt to make sure that you thrive at a comp where you have to fight for what you want in life. My Dad always used to say he was so successful because he was hungry - academically and actually hungry as they were poor and he had to fight to get to where he was. Whereas I was rather overfed with spoilt my schooling and took it all for granted .

@Newgirls

Certainly in our town the state schools got more into oxbridge and st Andrews than the private. It’s a bit tricky to quantify as the sixth forms are larger but yes anecdotally and what was said online it seems dramatically more from (very good) state schools. I know a few at good private schools whose kids got into very normal unis - not RG - which state school kids got in with Bs and Cs. Hard to think that expensive education was hugely worth it in those cases.

It’s difficult, isn’t it? I have seen a few interviews where the grades of the interviewee were ignored because they performed exceptionally well in on-the-spot knowledge tests.

@makemineatriple765

What about super selective private school? Are those kids never hugely bright? Or is it just their surrounding bolstering them. And if it’s just their surroundings then no one should want to go to Oxbridge because it offers all the benefits of a super selective private school.

Private schools kids aren't thick and those at selective schools are very bright at times exceptionally so.

However top grades are easier to obtain at A-level in private schools because of the additional funding according to research. So on average, an A student in an average state school is more able than an A student in a private school.

[quote dipdips]@makemineatriple765 I do find that when I meet a comp kid who has got really great grades I feel an extra level of respect for them. Maybe it is not so much intelligence I am respecting but their perseverance, resilience, self starting attitude, self belief.[/quote]
When I meet a comp kid who has got really great grades I often get chatting to them and find that I have a huge amount of respect for their parents ( who are often teachers, academics and products of top universities themselves) who know exactly how to navigate the state system and give their children the advantages they need to excel.

The generalisations on here are ridiculous!

• not all “comp kids” are underprivileged
• not all private school kids are ‘Tim, nice but dim’
• intelligent, hard-working, ambitious students exist in both sectors
• excellent, hard-working teachers exist in both sectors (as do poor ones)

It isn’t a zero sum game. Striving to raise education levels for more children across the board is a worthy goal.

@OnlyTeaForMe Couldn't agree more.
However the comp kids I meet through my work are not from that sort of background. More from the type of background that you are doing well if you have managed to not carry a knife/get caught up in a drug peddling gang/actually do A levels.
So yes to slightly alter what I posted, I really respect any child from a difficult background who manages to get decent grades from a comp. I know of one child who was from a travelling background and had to upset his whole family and the wider travelling community to even get to do A levels because it meant not touring in the summer with the fair and doing his bit for the family enterprise. He was helped to find accommodation for his 6th form years by an amazing mentor and went on to a RG uni. I could go on and on with a list of inspirational kids like this and believe me it is nothing to do with their parents, it is to do with the fire in their soul. When I meet these kids I literally melt inside.

@onlyteaforme I agree with you....sweeping generalisations don’t help anyone.

In regards to that piece of research which compared the attainment of private vs state school kids at university, I think the findings actually showed at the top of the attainment spectrum (I.e. kids that were achieving all A*s) there was no difference between state versus private students and they did equally well. The disparities were mainly at the middling grades (e.g. BBB)...which makes sense as the private school kid who is not particularly academic has maybe had all their potential squeezed out of them at school whereas the middling state school kid maybe hasn’t and therefore has more potential. However this is not the subset of kids that are applying to Oxbridge which is what the original post was all about. Yes we are probably missing out on finding some kids in the state school system that have the potential to be Oxbridge candidates and we need to put in place mechanisms to identify them but that doesn’t automatically assume that no private school kid has earned their place.

So we have established that private school pupils are much more advantaged than state school pupils because they have poor teaching, take easier exams, but have nice facilities.

Stsae school kids receive excellent teaching, take harder exams, but have rundown buildings. BUT they need contextual offers from Oxbridge
Only on MN.

No they don't need contextual offers! They can easily reach the offers! I literally know many dozens who have done so. It's the PROCESS that disadvantages them: no preparation for the special set of hoops that have to jumped through.

Should read /personally know/.

@houselikeashed I think posters were talking about GCSE's not A Levels? All A Levels are the same.

thetell
I was meaning that IGCSE pupils are less well prepared for A levels, whereas state school pupils who take GCSE are better prepared. Therefore disadvantaging private school kids for A levels.

@Newgirls
I am biased but I think it is worth it in other ways: development of talent in drama, music, sport, art, DT (opportunities and facilities), confidence and I’d even say health (because they do LOTS of sport!). As jobs are more difficult to get, employees (looking beyond universities) will look at different ways to differentiate between candidates who may have gained similar grades. The skills gained from a wide range of activities, covered at a very high level with superb facilities, shouldn’t be underestimated. I know some state schools offer this but they are limited by time and money.

[quote BustopherPonsonbyJones]@Newgirls
I am biased but I think it is worth it in other ways: development of talent in drama, music, sport, art, DT (opportunities and facilities), confidence and I’d even say health (because they do LOTS of sport!). As jobs are more difficult to get, employees (looking beyond universities) will look at different ways to differentiate between candidates who may have gained similar grades. The skills gained from a wide range of activities, covered at a very high level with superb facilities, shouldn’t be underestimated. I know some state schools offer this but they are limited by time and money.[/quote]
Possibly yes - the thread was about oxbridge though

We are lucky with state schools in our area as they are amazing at drama and sport. In fact the private girls near here is not good at sport due to limited space and the boys school doesn’t do much drama. Depends on the school definitely

@BustopherPonsonbyJones You have just described my DC"s state school. But agreed they are not all the same. In year 7,8,9 they have drama, music, DT (on rotation between metal/wood, textile/Food and Nutrition) 3 sports each week (including during lockdown) lots of matches with other schools, sports trips abroad (South African and Denmark coming up after Covid) as well as enrichment trips after GCSE to places like India - I think it was supposed to be Bolivia this year (if allowed, can't see how!) . Compulsory to take 2 languages up to GCSE. Amazing DT facilities in separate block. This is a comprehensive albeit an outstanding academy. It turns out a load of really impressive lovely children who go on to great RG uni's it also turns out much needed plumbers, beauty assistants etc with great btecs aimed at them. Really forward thinking dynamic school, hopefully the sign of things to come.

@newgirls same here our local private doesn't have an astroturf due to planning and listed building, so puts off lots of parents with sporty children.

I wish the bloody government would read this thread and inject a shed load of money into the state system, so it can catch up with offering the same opportunities as many of the private schools offer.

When I meet a comp kid who has got really great grades I often get chatting to them and find that I have a huge amount of respect for their parents ( who are often teachers, academics and products of top universities themselves) who know exactly how to navigate the state system and give their children the advantages they need to excel.

I don’t know what you are trying to say here? I am pretty sure it counts if you have educated parents. It counts more if you have educated parents who are loaded and have a huge network to go with it.

[quote dipdips]@Thewithesarehere I think that some of the things that fee paying schools market themselves as providing eg 'resilient' children - are actually a natural product of coming up through the state system especially in non selective schools. I took my vastly expensive education completely for granted to my undying shame whereas my children are absolute grafters and know much more about dealing with a range of personalities, 'choosing to learn' in an environment that isn't always pampering to your own learning or forcing you to work, having to fight for your rights rather than have a parent (customer) complain. Their attitude to life is so much better than mine was and it definitely isn't my parenting it is the skills they have learnt to make sure that you thrive at a comp where you have to fight for what you want in life. My Dad always used to say he was so successful because he was hungry - academically and actually hungry as they were poor and he had to fight to get to where he was. Whereas I was rather overfed with spoilt my schooling and took it all for granted .[/quote]
I worry about this sometimes. I want my children to appreciate what they have but I also admit that they haven’t needed to graft like I had to. If they lose a prestigious university place to someone who is quite similar on paper but from a less advantaged background, I will consider it fair if that child gets a place and my child doesn’t. I have been there and know what it’s like.

@houselikeashed Or at least make sure that the troubled state schools are pulled up to being more like the incredible state schools.

I do find that when I meet a comp kid who has got really great grades I feel an extra level of respect for them. Maybe it is not so much intelligence I am respecting but their perseverance, resilience, self starting attitude, self belief

This is the most ridiculous comment of the thread imo.

You do realise that not all comps are deprived or poor don't you? And not all 'comp kids' are walking 5 miles to school with empty bellies and soleless shoes

My dc's state comp is in the top 5% in the UK and in a very affluent area which, of course, means additional money and resources are poured in from many wealthy and well-connected parents. The teaching, facilities and opportunities are outstanding and I feel very fortunate that they're able to attend where they do.

But if my 'comp kids' come out with great GCSE's it will partially be due to them and partially due to their school and the fantastic opportunities they've had - they don't deserve your 'extra level' of respect fgs just because their mummy and daddy didn't pay for it.

So OP we can now add to the list that if you send your kid to private school they will lack ambition and rely on you to get them a job because they are too lazy - if I were you I would be trying to find one of these fantastic state schools some of the posters have been describing!!

@FredaFlintstone but I dont think that what people mean here. Most academics are well aware of the few very nice comps and the usual lots. The reality is that most comp simply do not prepare kids for Oxbridge no matter how smart they are. I've just seen a fab quote for an Oxford admissions tutor who said that kids cant start preparing for Oxbridge in the 6th form but should start age 11. Now how many kids who go to a comp get prepared to get to Oxbridge age 11.

Personally, I would suggest that this is an absolutely ludicrous statement from Oxford but thats their position not mine. My uni in no way assumes that you have to have dreamed of our university age 11.

Kids that get into Oxbridge need to be drilled into getting into it. So yes, it makes a huge difference which school kid go to

thetell
Yes. There are some amazing state schools, and some poor private schools.

@FredaFlintstone if you read on to later posts that poster made quite clear what type of comp child she was talking about and it wasn’t the type of child that attends your childrens’ school (or my childrens’ for that matter). She was talking about the type of comp that does get contextual offers which I am sure neither yours or mine do. And certainly mine doesn’t deserve contextual offers, it is surrounded by leafy suburbs and gorgeous villages. We are very privileged, ours are not the norm for comps but I am sure you know that already.

threelittlepandas did Oxford actually say that?! 11? There is an element of luck in getting in (eg. Feeling ill/bad period/examination marked wrong/bereavement) so the thought of spending 6-7 years with your parents driving you to one thing? That’s a mental health nightmare for the child and parents if they don’t get in.