Disappointed in top private school

[Nevermakeit]

My DS is in one of the junior section of what is considered one of the top private schools in London. We have been there 2 years and I am increasingly feeling disappointed by it, and as if it is all a bit of a con.

To be clear, there is no major issue, and DS is very happy (loves the food and playing cricket).
The teaching is fine, but not exceptional, and they don't seem to be 'all over' things (eg nobody has clocked yet that he doesn't understand a blind thing in any of the coding lessons and is getting left behind). He has little homework, and over Christmas had over a month off, and not a single piece of work to do, with result that by the end he was actually bored.
The school has great facilities but many things are extra eg music (as expected), but also drama (outsourced to external suppliers), and even chess club (£100 per term!) - in which case, I feel we are better off doing these outside the school, where the teaching might even be better (eg specialist teacher for chess/ability to actually see the music lesson). They have lots of grand sounding 'clubs' but now everything is online, I can see that there is very little content behind any of it. The children can sign up to as much or as little as they want, but no-one has any visibility of whether they participate, or even to ensure they push themselves outside their comfort zone and try different things (eg mine simply does sports).
The school newsletter is always full of the pupils amazing achievements, but the reality is that these reflect what they are doing OUTSIDE school, not anything the school has had any real influence on.
I have little contact with the other parents (most of the kids are bussed in), but as far as I can tell no-one else feels the same, they simply fawn over the school.
Everything is 'OK' for me too, but in view of the very high fees (which are significant for us), I would have expected more, and it feels like these schools trade off their reputation and rest on their laurels - and it's a bit of a case of 'emperor's new clothes'...
DS is happy, and proud of his school, as I said, so I will not take the decision to move him lightly. I just wonder if other people have had similar experiences?

Have to say, the suggestions that private school kids are more likely to do drugs is unnecessary and, were the reverse said, I think there'd be outrage (justifiably). There are children that dabble in drugs at both private and state schools and I find it inappropriate to generalise using individual anecdotes.

I have no axe to grind about state schools - I went to a grammar school, Durham Uni, a job at a Big 5 accountancy firm and then into investment banking. It didn't hold me back but I was surrounded by other children also keen to get good exam results. There was definitely less support for university applications, in fact, my subject teacher told me I was being over-ambitious applying to Durham (despite going on to get three As and a B at A level).

My two sons are at private school and it's a tough choice to weigh up the financial sacrifice of paying for private education. For us, it was the sports provision that made the difference - of course you can play club and county sport outside school but the facilities, number of fixtures (up to D and E teams for most sports per age group) and the level of training are fantastic. In fairness, some state schools provide this too but according to my friends whose kids go to our local state schools, this is a source of frustration. The pastoral care at our school is also very good as is careers and university application support (as it may be elsewhere).

That said, if my kids didn't love school sport, I would be tempted not to pay as our local state schools are very high performing academically and I'd feel I wouldn't be getting the same value for money.

@khg1 The thing is I think people tout drug taking as a reason not to send children to state schools, and I think anyone who has been to a fee paying school themselves knows that they are rattling with drugs because the children who attend them (who are no different in terms of wanting to try all of life's various experiences to their state school counterparts) are wealthy. Like most small businesses, drug dealers know their market place, and target wealthy kids, especially boarders with access to local towns/cities. My husband went to 'the best' boys school in the UK and found that getting drugs was as easy as buying sweets from the corner shop, because some very savvy dealers knew the lay of the land and developed relationships with the boys. The children at these fee paying schools stand out due to their uniforms and the dealers can spot them a mile off.

I think my point is that generalisations about drugs being rife at private schools are not especially helpful, nor representative based on the small number of schools we all know personally. Hence why I wouldn't make the same generalisations about state schools as it's not fair.

We live in a wealthy area so those children that want to take drugs have the means to do so and there's not a private/state school disparity. Appreciate that some uniforms scream "private school" but ours doesn't. I'm sure it's different in other areas and drugs may be more prevalent in some schools but drugs aren't only a private school problem.

That said, our pupils are the only ones using the local underground station so there are a lot of muggings.

@khg1 point taken. And I think we are both coming from vaguely the same place that children are children, schools are schools and that in reality the real indicator of how a child turns out is down to home and family. And I was being really clear that I was talking about the children local to me and everyone round here does know the private school kids bring the best drugs to the parties, because they have the money to buy it in bulk (and some of them have turned selling it on into a little niche business alongside their depop franchises!) But I am looking at one particular set of schools in one particular area, I wasn't making a generalisation in my original statement. Luckily none of them are going to parties at the moment so we don't have to worry! Sad for them though.

Flourandeggs absolutely! A friend was talking about Reading festival and it was rather eye-opening (in a bad way).

I know I can be sensitive to some comments on private school kids as I've probably read too many state v private school threads on MN! I just get fed up of reading posts about all private school kids being arrogant, snobby, lacking resilience and being academically unproactive to name but a few I've read recently. I wouldn't say these types of things about the kids I know that go to state schools. Not least because it's based on the limited number of people I've met through school, uni and work.

When I used to take interviewees out to lunch, we were told we were not to criticise our competitors in any way but to present positive reasons why they should join our firm. Equally, there's some brilliant state schools and there's some poor private schools. Some posters hate academically selective schools (whether state or private), some think they're great.

I thought the original post about the reality behind the "gloss" of private school marketing was an interesting one.

@khg1 I hear you! Same here when people are disparaging about state school children. Someone was making the most awful claim on here that state school children were always on their phones when private school children weren't and I almost choked in rage when I read that one, it is so clearly not the case from where I am standing. Broadly speaking all middle class children are similar (and I say MC because it is MC parents who tend to hang out on education forums for fun) - same issues, same worries, same outcomes give or take the odd exception.

@khg1

Flourandeggs absolutely! A friend was talking about Reading festival and it was rather eye-opening (in a bad way).

I know I can be sensitive to some comments on private school kids as I've probably read too many state v private school threads on MN! I just get fed up of reading posts about all private school kids being arrogant, snobby, lacking resilience and being academically unproactive to name but a few I've read recently. I wouldn't say these types of things about the kids I know that go to state schools. Not least because it's based on the limited number of people I've met through school, uni and work.

When I used to take interviewees out to lunch, we were told we were not to criticise our competitors in any way but to present positive reasons why they should join our firm. Equally, there's some brilliant state schools and there's some poor private schools. Some posters hate academically selective schools (whether state or private), some think they're great.

I thought the original post about the reality behind the "gloss" of private school marketing was an interesting one.

I was definitely not comparing state vs private schools, or getting into that debate.... it was more about whether others were also questioning the reality which I am seeing behind what is 'sold' to us by the schools and the 'system' basically (including people like the media, Good Schools Guide, and the likes).

I do wonder:

1. If this has got worse. My father went to a top private school (I didn't), and based on his experience, in those days it did seem worth it: lots of very high quality extra-curricular, and also going far beyond curriculum, and huge general knowledge

2. Why the schools don't push themselves to deliver that little bit more. As I said, they have huge ressources, and smart, motivated children - I don't understand why they don't have more ambition for what they could do (vs doing things like renovating changing rooms which are already in great condition, etc).

@Nevermakeit I think if you have a look at the size of the marketing and PR departments of these schools you will see why the hype they can whip up is successful. They are businesses and they have bottom lines and they use advertising and PR in the same way other businesses do to drive their sales. They position themselves against each other as brands and they try and sell their own USP's. Whether they deliver on those is probably as subjective to their consumers as buying other premium products - it will depend on the consumer's budget, expectations and loyalty to brand.

But of course if kids make it from rough backgrounds and awful schools in deprived areas to achieve top A-levels, they deserve top universities and employers falling over themselves to recruit them because that means these individuals are exceptional because that route is bloody hard!

I'm from the former Soviet Union and my grandfather was one of those "wonder" kids who was simply exceptional despite the hand he had been dealt as a child. His father died before he was born, his mother remarried a man who was executed in Stalin's time as "an enemy of the state". She was then imprisoned as the wife of an enemy of the state (when my grandfather was very little). He was passed from relative to relative. They were absolutely dirt poor, living in barely human conditions. No one supported him or taught him anything. Yet, through absolutely exceptional academic ability he managed to drive himself from almost literally the gutter to achieve incredible success, became a Professor of Physics at an elite university and was a very renowned Soviet scientist whose work on the Chermobyl disaster was relied on by the government. He was also the smartest person I have ever met in my life.

However, those kind of kids and stories are the absolute exception and the truth is most kids just aren't exceptional, so parents pay to ensure that their paths to success are much easier and their school environments much nicer than those of the underprivileged kids.

What irks me is our local rag is silent upon any teenage misdeeds by private school children as the schools pay for lots of advertising in said rag whilst any interesting misbehaviour by state school pupils is reported with glee on the front page. I admit that pisses me off as I know similar (actually worse) is going on at the private schools through my own and dds friends but this is hushed up!

Amazing about your grandfather.

My father had a call from Oxford as one of his state school pupils hadn’t interviewed that well. He could provide the background that her mother was a cleaner and a single parent which when taken into account made her an awesome candidate to have got that far and she was in.

Sorry but I can’t help but root for the state school underdogs and internally cheer when they achieve

@MsTSwift me too! It's not about doing the others down. I know lots of perfectly lovely privately educated people and children. But when a whopping and unprecedented 5 students in DS's year got into Oxbridge one year (the school is a very large comp and can go years with not even a single candidate) I whooped. They SO bloody deserved it. No preparation, no special input from school, just super bright
It's quite natural to cheer for the underdogs I think.

@MsTSwift Those PR departments are equally good at dealing with negative/crisis PR management. No different to other businesses. But occasionally the stories squirm out, usually via playground chat to those who happen to be journo's! I have a friend with children at Ampleforth and the parents were sent an email asking them to promote the school on their own social media pages in the light of what has happened recently - a very swift and proactive PR reaction to the negative stories in the press. Those who buy in to the Ampleforth brand are pretty loyal (often went there themselves) and lo and behold I saw her post something about her childrens' lovely experience at the school within a day of getting the email.

My dad and his mates (retired senior teachers) are a crack team of volunteers and help prep kids from the local state for Oxbridge interviews 😁

@MsTSwift He sounds like a legend! If I ever get round to setting up my pro bono PR company to promote the amazing education and outcomes going on in state schools I will be sure to get in touch. So many amazing, inspiring stories out there, no one with the time to sell them to the world.

@MsTSwift imagining your dad and his mates as mortar board-ed super heroes dashing in to help allow kids to soar upwards! Can he come down to Cornwall and help at DC's old school? I'd love it if DS's year wasn't an anomoly

I think the issue is the children limiting their own expectations “that’s not for people like me” when they more than capable 🙁

Interesting thread.
My Partner's son went to St P's.
Ended up repeating his A- level year, after not great results there. My partner has recently moved in with me. He works from home and my children are home doing their live lessons. My partner is amazed at just how great the teaching is at their local comp when compared with St P's and his daughter's private school.
I think he now wishes he wasn't swayed into them going to expensive private schools.

'It’s what happens outside of school that is key to whether a child will succeed or flounder'

This

That’s very true. Surrounded by engaged focused successful parents, kids doing all sorts of activities, family discussions and games, amazing trips and activities together. All state educated kids but well taught at school. Due to their parents they are just as if not more fortunate than privately educated children. It’s the state educated kids without that input that don’t fulfil their potential.

@Happymum12345

When did you start to think it’s a bit of a con? If it been since the start of the pandemic, you really can’t include nearly a year of his education. No school, however good, can emulate what normally happens in a school day. There is so much more to school than just the lessons. You also can’t tell how good a teacher is online either, if that’s what you are basing things on. No school is perfect, have you told the staff that your son has problems with like coding? If it’s too much financially, then I would leave. As a teacher in a private school myself, the parents that can’t really afford send their children there, are often disappointed in some aspect of the school and take it out on the teachers. I’ve seen it year after year with every member of staff.

Have to disagree with " you can't tell how good a teacher is online". This is just untrue (and I personally have years of teaching experience in various settings, so do know what good teaching looks and sounds like).

Bump

Bumping again. Would be really grateful to hear any new thoughts from parents about this school especially the Junior school post Covid. Has the new head brought any changes, both positive and negative? Thank you.

This s a Xombie thread@Wxluuu. You might be better to start a new thread with the school name in the title.