Disappointed in top private school

[Nevermakeit]

My DS is in one of the junior section of what is considered one of the top private schools in London. We have been there 2 years and I am increasingly feeling disappointed by it, and as if it is all a bit of a con.

To be clear, there is no major issue, and DS is very happy (loves the food and playing cricket).
The teaching is fine, but not exceptional, and they don't seem to be 'all over' things (eg nobody has clocked yet that he doesn't understand a blind thing in any of the coding lessons and is getting left behind). He has little homework, and over Christmas had over a month off, and not a single piece of work to do, with result that by the end he was actually bored.
The school has great facilities but many things are extra eg music (as expected), but also drama (outsourced to external suppliers), and even chess club (£100 per term!) - in which case, I feel we are better off doing these outside the school, where the teaching might even be better (eg specialist teacher for chess/ability to actually see the music lesson). They have lots of grand sounding 'clubs' but now everything is online, I can see that there is very little content behind any of it. The children can sign up to as much or as little as they want, but no-one has any visibility of whether they participate, or even to ensure they push themselves outside their comfort zone and try different things (eg mine simply does sports).
The school newsletter is always full of the pupils amazing achievements, but the reality is that these reflect what they are doing OUTSIDE school, not anything the school has had any real influence on.
I have little contact with the other parents (most of the kids are bussed in), but as far as I can tell no-one else feels the same, they simply fawn over the school.
Everything is 'OK' for me too, but in view of the very high fees (which are significant for us), I would have expected more, and it feels like these schools trade off their reputation and rest on their laurels - and it's a bit of a case of 'emperor's new clothes'...
DS is happy, and proud of his school, as I said, so I will not take the decision to move him lightly. I just wonder if other people have had similar experiences?

Absolutely MrPickles.

Dh and I obviously fitted in as occasionally people would make awful comments about state schools and those making them were horrified when we admitted we attended them!

Also places like Goldman Sachs (where I was for a while) are very right on about hiring and any attempt to pump connections would not go down well..

@MrPickles73 how do I get me a dairy god mother? Would she provide all things cheese? Or could she be a daily milk god mother, I think I need her at the moment to get through homeschooling! x

Sorry flourandeggs am on my phone!

@MrPickles73 don't apologise I am loving the idea! Am just picturing what she might wear.

I've had one child at a 'good' comprehensive and another at a private school and I can honestly say that the level of teaching at the private school is off the scale better. They know my son very well, his strengths and weaknesses, and they know how to engage him. They're not obsessed with telling the kids off for petty infractions and they are entertaining as well as informative. Right from the beginning they were teaching him skills, like critical thinking and setting out an argument.

I'm not saying that good comprehensive schools don't do this but it may be more of a lottery. In my other son's state school there was a constant churn of teaching staff, even mid-year which was really disruptive. Teachers didn't mark the work set, so he never learnt what he was doing wrong and there was no real incentive to do the homework in the first place.

Because there wasn't much dialogue with the school, there was no point in complaining and I don't think they would have cared anyway. When I asked for some support with my son's writing in year 9. (It really was illegible) they just gave me a special pencil and told me I'd have to help him with it.

I'd have loved the state system to have worked and both my children were in primary state schools which were fine. But after my elder child's experiences at senior school, I couldn't repeat the experience.

Private schools are all about making money, it's not really About checking up on the dc to ensure that are attending extra classes, understanding their work etc

As with all schools - if you aren’t happy about something or something is worrying you, speak to the school. I assume it’s a feeder to the upper school - so most kids will progress to there? What’s that one like?

@Googlebrained I think you are completely right about the lottery win - you have just described our local comp which is outstanding in every way. Its a bloody huge place but I feel like they know my children so well. It surprises me at every turn. We put away money each year just incase, but are delighted that we haven't had to move them - both financially and because they are so happy to have local friends especially at the moment when they can exercise with a different friend every day. I keep waiting to be disappointed as we had the opposite experience at a small state primary, but the place just blows my mind! Their virtual learning is so brilliant I want to do it myself, the online parents evening was seemless, they are so forward thinking, a 'yes' environment, they see COVID as an opportunity to expand how they offer learning not a threat to how they offer learning, and their SEN is unbelievable, my dyslexic DC is given a tailored program and they have rung twice this lockdown to see how DC is doing with accessing it. Friend of mine has a contact at Oxford and spoke to them a few years ago as she was thinking of moving her child to the local private for 6th form and her contact said she would be bloody mad, that the children coming up from good state schools are in a league of their own because they have had to choose to learn, are resilient, can cope in larger groups - all of which suit university learning. No surprise she kept him in our comp. However I am very clear that this is one school, and in no way reflects every comp in the land, but if I have my way one day it will do!

@flourandeggs you are fortunate indeed! My DC also went to a comp but I have to say it was far from excellent except weirdly it's music dept was fabulous. Which suited my two brass players.
Academically and aspirationally though it was average. I would
say my DC were fortunate to have tuned in MC parents to push them. And they managed well, without extra tuition or a thing to get to Cambridge and Durham respectively. Where they reported that they were anomalies! There were plenty ty if state school students but they were from grammars and places like Hills Rd in Cambridge. Both felt they lacked the 'polish' the private kids had, and also that in the case of Cambridge there had been no prep for entrance exams or interviews. It's that stuff that you're paying for at private - and an obvious leg up in terms of smaller classes.
The big plus to a local school
Is friendships are local and you are part of a community. You're not opting out of your surroundings, which is nice

@scentedgeranium. Your children sound amazing! I suspect they did feel a bit surrounded by fee paying school school children at those two Uni's - there are about 10 of them which attract children from fee paying, (even if there are just as good courses elsewhere) as they often like to stick with their own. I was the opposite, had an eye wateringly expensive education and then went to a RG uni that wasn't popular with fee paying children and felt liberated from the 'sameness' that being part of a tiny minority tribe can sometimes bring. My DB went to one of the Uni's known for being full of DC from fee paying schools, and even there he found that there was segregation, the Uni (Exeter) put children in halls according to the TYPE of fee paying school they went to. Eton et all in one, the more 'minor' fee paying schools in another and 'downwards' from there...god knows how the DC from comps felt, the whole thing was hideous. I felt hugely relieved to be away from it all to be honest, but DB was happy enough.

@flourandeggs hahaha. I think their comp experience kept their feet on the ground! They also worked through sixth form like all their friends did. However I do slight regret that despite their stellar achievements they still feel like imposters. Their more well heeled friends don't seem to at all. And that, I think is also what OP doesn't yet realise she's paying for; that innate feeling of hey I deserve to be here.

[quote Nevermakeit]@TheSunIsStillShining, I think we might indeed be in the same school.
And I agree with all your points, including the asterisks one - it's exactly right that the facilities are amazing, but 99% are not actually used by your own child ! I also think like @crampon that the network matters less these days, as (thankfully) society is a lot more open.

I have had this feeling pretty much from the start, definitely since before Covid - They are actually coping with the Covid situation quite well (as well they should since each child is mandated to have their own ipad, and their staff-pupil ratio is high) - I have no complaints there. So my question is not based on what is happening in Covid, though it does peels away some of the layers and 'fairy dust' on some of the extra-curricular, and you get to see more of what actually happens behind the scenes (eg you see what they are doing in some of these famed 'clubs' - which is very very little).
I have 2 other, younger children, and this has put me right off private schools, I have to say. If I had known what I know now, I would have kept him in his previous school - but as it is now I will probably leave him (unless he becomes unhappy, in which case will gladly move him).
The reason for my post was really to find out if other people have ever, in their heart of hearts, thought the same thing - that actually, these schools are fine, but really not what they are cracked up to be - they do a fantastic job of whipping up middle class parents into a frenzy, but ultimately it's all a bit of a con.... which I think is such a shame, as with the intake they have, and the money they have, they could do so SO much more.
I think ultimately that's what really gets me - it is a stretch, but financially we can afford it.... but I just wish these schools challenged themselves a bit more and did more with the ressources they have.... rather than comfortably just resting on their laurels.[/quote]
What makes you assume your experience is true of all private schools? Logically that doesn’t make sense.

Also as another data point my children are in a well-known buy non-selective London prep and I’ve been very happy with it. The individual teachers vary from good enough to great and the heads/deputy heads are very hands on. Perhaps the best thing about the school is they really make sure all of the kids are up to speed and provide both remediation end extra challenge where needed. It helps that class sizes don’t go above 18-20. The clubs are a bit overrated I agree but to me it’s more about exploring different things rather than deep learning. To be fair most of our clubs are included with the school fees, I might feel differently if I was paying extra.

Also I found that I really got my money’s worth when it came to the 11+ process. Their guidance on choosing and getting into the right school for our child was fantastic. I She actually ended up in a school I wouldn’t have applied to but the head suggested it and she has been so happy there. Plus the school did so much preparation for the exams and interviews tailored to the different schools children were applying to. That’s when I really felt the value of private prep.

Praise be! I've been searching for a thread like this for over a year now. It feels like a vast wall of silence has been lifted.

Our very able DS is in pre-prep at a highly thought-of indie which the Tatler states 'makes a cracking pace'. It claims to be selective, but the reality is that it is selective only insofar as the behaviourally needy children are selected out.

DH and I are both from State but DS is our only child and we wanted him to have all the things that state schools struggle to provide nowadays. And it does. Specialist teaching is provided for the foundation subjects, there is an ipad for every child, there is no shortage of resources, the grounds are lovely ... I could go on.

But as a former teacher, I can honestly say that the teaching of the core subjects is weaker than you would see in the state system, and Twinkl worksheets are the order of the day. Less able children get the adult support whilst the bright ones are expected to work alone with work of low challenge. Extension work is usually just more of the same. Meanwhile the Head extols through his weekly emails how 'above and beyond' the national curriculum his pupils are excelling. No they are not, and it's all emperor's new clothes. If they were held accountable to Ofsted rather than to what is ostensibly a peer review inspection, he would not get away with this.

The truth of it appears that the low to average child does well in an indie whereas the bright child coasts. We've had a meeting with the Head, but it did not go well and apparently we are the only parents in the entire school who have ever thought our able child was not being challenged. He also implied that because he is still in pre-prep it did not really matter.

It's interesting to learn that the more 'genuinely' selective schools present with the same issues, because we had considered looking for just such a school instead. But there's nowhere for us within a reasonable travelling distance. We've also considered taking DS to state instead, because results are brilliant at the schools near us. But he is happy and settled where he is, and luckily his classmates are wall to wall lovely. But this means that teaching should be even better than state, rather than fractionally below it, doesn't it?

@SincerelyBygones I've wondered the point you make. I think you're right - that really bright kids do well anywhere.
Why not take your bright DS out and let the local school take over?. I bet if he really is bright he'll do well. Plus his brightness will be a good influence on the other children whose parents may not be as aspirational as yours. Win win!

@SincerelyBygones I've wondered the point you make. I think you're right - that really bright kids do well anywhere.
Why not take your bright DS out and let the local school take over?. I bet if he really is bright he'll do well. Plus his brightness will be a good influence on the other children whose parents may not be as aspirational as yours. Win win!

Ooops. Sorry. My point isn't good enough to repeat!

@SincerelyBygones What is your plan for secondary? If teaching is your main concern and you do not plan to use grammar/privates for secondary then maybe it is best to move him to state?

@scentedgeranium I think that @SincerelyBygones sounds like a terrific parent and is adhering to the rule 'Never move a happy child unless you really, really have to.' Our local primary school was not terribly inspiring - the teaching was great but the extra curricular was a bit meh, but our children were as happy as pigs in mud there, walking to school with friends, playing in the local playground opposite after school, and with lovey friends for holidays. So although we could have moved them to a sweet little private with better extra curricular we didn't, and I look back now and know we did the right thing. Children are like plants - don't damage their roots too much or they will never reach their full flourish! When they are happy and settled they learn best WHEREVER they are. We just supplemented by buying a truck load books, taking them to great clubs and doing really interesting travel experiences and they have turned out exactly like all their friends who went to the local private. I think its a bit like breastfeeding in some ways - I fed all of mine because 1) I could 2) I read about all the long term health benefits for children 3) I read about the benefits to intelligence and now I look at these enormous almost grown children I know and realise there is absolutely no difference between those who were on the bottle or the boob and wonder if I should maybe have given myself a break and done the odd bottle and got some sleep. Live and learn.

sincerelybygones we have a similar experience. I have been requesting greater maths challenge for our new yr 6 for over s year and nothing has changed .

@flourandeggs I'm delighted for you that your children had such a good experience. I'd love that to be replicated so that all children enjoy the same high standards of education. It's just that with my past experiences I just don't think I could trust that particular school. My elder son went to an excellent state sixth form college, which I would have been happy for my younger son to go to but he wanted to stay with his mates. So I do believe it's possible for state education to be excellent.

I don't use the private school as a leg up for my child. Just to reach a decent standard of education that every child should have. I didn't even think about the networking and tbh I don't think his school is of that kind of ilk.

@Googlebrained totally agree with you and I would move any of my children in a shot if I thought they were unhappy or couldn't reach their potential where they were, we have been extraordinarily lucky I can see that. Around us the middle class children end up at decent universities whether they pick the privates, comp or the grammar, so I suspect it is more to do with the parenting than the schools. They also maintain the friendships between each other that they make at preschool/primary (depending at which stage they veer away from the local options) and all end up going to the same parties, festivals and then ultimately uni. And anecdotally the private school kids always bring the best drugs!

There is some evidence that when you strip away confounding factors (mainly family income and parents' education level) then the school you choose has very little impact on the academic achievement of children (as long as it's not a really terrible school). Not sure about the impact on earning potential - i should look into that.

Personally i would only consider a fee paying school for DD if all other choices were obviously substandard or if she developed a specific interest that would make a specific fee paying school a much better choice.

I grew up in Germany though, where there are very few private schools and even well off people wouldn't really feel the need to bypass state education. My class included the son of a very wealthy local brewery family, as well as children of factory and shop workers.

My philosophy is that if your kid is reasonably bright then they'll make their own way, regardless of the exact school you choose. I find the obsession with getting kids into the 'right' schools quite baffling.

@DoubleHelix79 I think some people have enough money that they don't have to think too hard, so it's a bit like buying a First Class plane ticket that gets you to the exact same destination but in slightly more comfort. I think the problem arises when people with less money buy in to these businesses based on some hard core branding and advertising, find that their child's experience doesn't live up to the glossy packaging, and wonder why they are paying quite so much when they can get a fairly similar experience for free. The thing is that if you are taking a plane journey, there are some things that even a First Class ticket can't change - jet lag, sitting next to someone who you don't like/who snores, being stuck inside a metal tube for 12 hours, eating food that is heated up in a microwave. However good these fee paying school businesses are, they are still schools, and they all come with the same issues - other children, bullying, a range of teaching abilities, changes in leadership, other schools that are just beating them academically/sporting from however hard they try, a difficult cohort in a particular year/parents you don't like.
I think often it is parents own expectations that lead to the let down feeling and it isn't helped by considerable PR departments with slick skills. It is a bit like buying Creme De la mer because all the famous people do and then finding out that you still have spots/dry skin etc due to your own skin being the way it is. There is only so much a school or a skin care solution can do.