Disappointed in top private school

[Nevermakeit]

My DS is in one of the junior section of what is considered one of the top private schools in London. We have been there 2 years and I am increasingly feeling disappointed by it, and as if it is all a bit of a con.

To be clear, there is no major issue, and DS is very happy (loves the food and playing cricket).
The teaching is fine, but not exceptional, and they don't seem to be 'all over' things (eg nobody has clocked yet that he doesn't understand a blind thing in any of the coding lessons and is getting left behind). He has little homework, and over Christmas had over a month off, and not a single piece of work to do, with result that by the end he was actually bored.
The school has great facilities but many things are extra eg music (as expected), but also drama (outsourced to external suppliers), and even chess club (£100 per term!) - in which case, I feel we are better off doing these outside the school, where the teaching might even be better (eg specialist teacher for chess/ability to actually see the music lesson). They have lots of grand sounding 'clubs' but now everything is online, I can see that there is very little content behind any of it. The children can sign up to as much or as little as they want, but no-one has any visibility of whether they participate, or even to ensure they push themselves outside their comfort zone and try different things (eg mine simply does sports).
The school newsletter is always full of the pupils amazing achievements, but the reality is that these reflect what they are doing OUTSIDE school, not anything the school has had any real influence on.
I have little contact with the other parents (most of the kids are bussed in), but as far as I can tell no-one else feels the same, they simply fawn over the school.
Everything is 'OK' for me too, but in view of the very high fees (which are significant for us), I would have expected more, and it feels like these schools trade off their reputation and rest on their laurels - and it's a bit of a case of 'emperor's new clothes'...
DS is happy, and proud of his school, as I said, so I will not take the decision to move him lightly. I just wonder if other people have had similar experiences?

@WombatChocolate. true - I think it is a more insidious influence than simple classroom disruptance at fee paying schools but it can have a very severe impact especially in boarding schools - I come across lots of children who have fallen in to a life style due to peer influence and end up in a catastrophic state and fluffing their exams (or not taking them due to mental health breakdown over grade expectation) even though they have small classes and not too many teacher changes -which ends up being much worse long term than if they get a 7 rather than a 9 at GCSE because the lovely kid with Aspergers is noisy in class at the local comp. There is so much bloody drugs at the wealthier schools that they rattle like a medicine cabinet. I worry that first time users of fee paying schools have no idea of the dark underbelly of some of these families and think money equates a good clean life which to those of us who have experienced fee paying ourselves (especially as boarders) know is so SO far from the reality.

“ t's easier for teachers in selective independents to become complacent and not push themselves”

Definitely agree with this...plus also for management not to care!

Also agree with a wombat, and would add that many parents end up disappointed regarding the sports side

Yes the facilities and matches are amazing. But only if your child actually gets into the first or second team. Most kids end up not being good enough to get selected at the larger schools

OP, don't take this the wrong way, but I think you've fallen into the trap that assuming something is expensive means it is also good quality. And it's simply not true. It's also true that all schools have pros and cons and that a school that might be brilliant for child A is NOT good for child B.

Reputation is also a thing. A teacher friend of mine once told me she'd choose the school with something to prove over the one with an already great reputation any day as having taught in both types, the former are much more driven and engaged. This is proving interesting in our local area where the two high schools are very different. One with an extremely well regarded reputation of long standing, the other one with quite a bad reputation. The second one has recently got a new headteacher who has clearly got some very clear, and ambitious, targets. Parents who actually bother to go look at schools (and it never ceases to amaze me how many people only do desk research and ask around) are almost ALL now choosing the second school because, instead of relying on reputation alone, they're actually seeing the difference.

@WombatChocolate, thank you for your great posts, they really ring true.

That is what I have found most unexpected, the fact that the teachers - who to be clear are 'fine', there is no major problem that I have seen so far - don't really push either themselves or the children. I thought these teachers would be highly driven and seeking to excel (either due to their personalities, or to the fact the school would be putting pressure on them to do so) - and would be really stimulating the children to go above and beyond (since so many of the children in their classes are receptive to that!). So using the curriculum as a springboard to go further. But that isn't really the case.

The other big myth which has been busted for me is that because you pay huge fees, the school will be anxious to please.
I haven't majorly raised specific concerns with the school ...because I don't have a specific concern, but rather a general feeling of feeling underwhelmed, and lots of little disappointments . However, from what I have sensed/observed, in this kind of school the individual parents are actually quite 'small fry', and the people in charge can actually be quite patronising. The vibe amongst the parents is fawning/self congratulatory, and the school has people with bright kids falling over themselves to get in - so if individual parents like us are not satisfied or leave, they will lose no sleep over it!
Just thought I would bust that myth for anyone who assumes the 'customer is king' in these schools. I actually feel I have more leverage in my other children's state school!

Very wise words from @WombatChocolate.

I think a highly selective junior school offers a child companionship with a lot of other talented children, so they motivate and bounce ideas off each other, every day at school. It sets higher expectations. It is much easier to progress or maintain interest if you play and learn with others, whether it is in top set maths, or a chess team, or in the orchestra.

Also, one thing I found when my child moved from state to prep was that private school parents seems to be much more proactive in emailing the teacher or the school about any concerns, big or small. It took me a while to realise that.

Op, that’s all really interesting.

I think schools do vary. Some schools do pressure their staff to perform. Senior school teachers with exam classes are often under a lot of pressure to squeeze the results out because of league tables. In Prep schools, there is less data lower down that schools and teachers can be held account, especially if they don’t sit SATs. Their equivalent will be the secondary destinations and scholarships, but that information can be presented in very vague ways.

Parents often have different expectations too of what school should be doing academically. Some (and you sound in this category) want lots of pushing beyond the curriculum, homework and holiday work. Perhaps you are the parent who will have their child doing 2 hours in Saturday at a young age and working most days if the holiday for 11+ prep....on work you find yourself or that is provided by school. This attitude to school work and having a real drive to do lots and work very very hard isn’t universal amongst parents and is often cultural. Lots of parents paying high fees don’t want lots of homework or holiday work, especially for younger children and schools often get requests for less. And I guess the school takes a view on what is the right level of push in the classroom and amount of homework or holiday work for different age groups and it won’t fit with what all the parents would like id eally. Perhaps you would like more push, but the teacher knows what they are doing and the level the children are working at is bang on track for getting into the highly selective senior schools that the kids tend to progress to or will get the top exam grades. Most schools will actually avoid holiday work, especially for younger children and take the view that a good long break is important. There are so many other things a child can do in the holidays to stop them being bored apart from school work. So anyway, a divergence of expectation can be a source of disappointment.

In my experience, one thing independent schools have done well is respond to parents. That means (in my experience) seeking feedback about lots of things, listening and implementing thing parents asked for (and making sure they know feedback has been acted on) and particularly in terms of replying to parental communication extremely quickly. This seems a big difference to most state schools to me. Parents might have a reply within a couple of hours, meetings might be arranged very quickly if required, and parents usually have access by email to all subject teachers, whereas in lots of schools, it just isn’t possible to communicate directly with all teachers. Parents often report never getting a reply or waiting weeks.

However, it is true that in order to get the response, the parent needs to communicate their concern or issue to the school. I wonder if disappointment often creeps in, with parents not 100% happy but not voicing it. They maybe just expect the school to know...but they don’t. Often people feel that if they are paying vast sums, the school SHOULD know and they shouldn’t have to say (for example, that coding hasn’t been understood) but unless they say, issues will pass by unnoticed, and then there’s the chance for dissatisfaction to grow. I’m sure some schools are dismissive of parental views...
You often hear that about highly competitive state grammars where so many want a place, that there seems less desire to need to respond to parents...or it might just be a perception.

It is hard when you shell out vast sums and had in your mind an ideal of education that you were buying...and then it doesn’t materialise. I agree that might be about academics or as others mention, in terms of the sport or music provision just not being quite the level hoped for and the realisation that club/county/ outside provision might be better or more specialised. I always remember a friend telling me they to,d their child that they had to engage with the school music (instrument, orchestras etc) and also engage with the sport and be in teams (even if lower level ones) because those were the 2 provisions that really made independent schools different and were what you were paying for...without engaging in those (and lots of kids dont and their parents aren’t bothered) they’ve really paid for similar teaching to they could have had for free, albeit in a smaller, calmer classroom, in a nicer setting.

Op, do you think your expectations about work (especially homework and holiday work and being pushed) are in line with that of the majority of the parents and indeed the school itself?It’s an interesting one, but I think if you’re not quite in sync, there’s more scope for disappointment.

It's a supply vs demand thing isn't it? As long as there are plenty more people wanting places and prepared to pay the fees the school won't care about what one parent thinks. I have a couple of friends who sent their children to a world famous boarding school where they had very bad experiences. But complaints got them nowhere. The school's attitude was that they were lucky to have a place and that they could fill a vacancy in minutes if one arose.
In pretty much any situation where demand outstrips supply, the providers have the upper hand.
I think that parents often do have more leverage in state schools. When I think of my experiences on the one or two occasions that I have raised issues with my children's state schools, compared to what happened to my friends I was definitely taken more seriously. And I was given a very clear process to follow if I wasn't happy with the outcome whereas they were more ir less told to suck it up or leave.

@WombatChocolate My brother and sister-in-law have recently had the exact opposite with being 'listened to' and their DC was eventually managed out of the Junior school as she was not getting the results that were expected (dreadful teaching, most of the school's success was due to heavy external coaching) There was woeful comms from the school, no clear processes to deal with complaints and they were left feeling very stung by the whole thing - she is happily flourishing and doing really well academically else where thank goodness. So as ever this is often a school by school thing - some privates have good parent comms some have dreadful and some states have good parent comms some have dreadful. You will find every type of anecdote on here about how parents have or have not been listened to and whether or not appropriate action will be taken re bullying, teaching, issues for both sectors.

My DD goes to a top girls independent in London and all I can say is the online provision has been excellent, but the school is run with military efficiency and a lots of kindness. I always wish every child could experience this level of teaching.

My DS goes to a boys prep and it has been better than many other similar more competitive preps. I think it is hit and miss and overall organisation, administration and management plays a key part at the moment. Also the looming 11+ might play a big role.

Of the 3 big name London boys schools, I have heard this sort of complaint from parents about one of them a few times. I suspect it is no coincidence that it is the only one of the 3 that no longer requires the boys to sit any sort of exam before transferring to the senior section.

In OP's case isnt she largely paying to bypass the crazily competitive 11+, as a lot of London/Se parents do as all the top privates there are highly selective?

@Notmynom

Of the 3 big name London boys schools, I have heard this sort of complaint from parents about one of them a few times. I suspect it is no coincidence that it is the only one of the 3 that no longer requires the boys to sit any sort of exam before transferring to the senior section.

@notmynom - seriously? That's the one we are at. It almost makes me feel better that you say that, because I was feeling so alone, and actually wondering if it was me that was just being unrealistic and unreasonable!

Dare I say that many parents concentrate on getting their children into the “best” schools and focus less on the “right” school. An assessment of best is usually exam league tables and university destinations combined with first impressions. These schools only really accept the very brightest so results should be a given with decent teaching.

My DD got an 11+ place at one of the “big name” North London highly selective girls independents which we turned down in favour of a school with a reputation locally as being a “backup” school. 100% the right decision. We have been wowed by everything they do and academically she is encouraged to compete against and push only herself, not compare against others. The girls are supportive of each other, the teaching brilliant (and there is very regular communication on progress), the amazing facilities are used by all as they have a policy of being inclusive - if you want to join in you can - and their remote provision has been just as impressive. The school (pre lockdown) put a lot of effort into and provided opportunities to really get to know them, starting even in Y4. We were able to go into it with our eyes wide open.

Compare and contrast to her friend who went to the big name school we turned down who hasn’t made any sports teams so her love of netball is restricted to one 45 minute club a week and she has just lost interest. The “sell” consisted of an open day and then a day after the offers went out and that was it. There was a definite air of expectation that you would accept the offer based purely on the reputation of the school.

Agree Zodlebud

For us this meant our DC going to different schools

One to the local “outstanding” comp (more academic, bit more pressure) and the other to the much less rated comp (still a “good” ofsted) as it was a better fit (less formal, more friendly, more focus on music and arts).

The actual “best” schools where we live are not places I’d ever send my kids to

Yes, I think you have hit the nail on the head there Zodlebud and it is why ultimately all the "which school is best" discussions are a bit pointless. Still interesting to debate of course, but the bottom line is that what is the best school for one child can be a nightmare for another, and vice versa.

It's easy for me also to forget what options we would have had, had we not gone private.

The two local comprehensive schools, in a northern mining area,, are very underfunded. One is riddled with issues, it has barbed wire and a police van permanently outside. Many children cause issues locally, they set fire to the local primary and various other issues like this.

We looked at moving in thr catchment for a hugely oversubscribed leafy comprehensive but the cost of housing, including mortgage interest, way outweighed paying for private. The housing premium was huge.

Do when I am tempted to compare 'state and private', I have to remember that I would have paid more to send the children to leafy state comprehensive!! I am sure this is a reality in many parts of the country.

@Travelban I suppose the difference though is that when money is invested in property it is something you know that you will one day get back or pass on to your children - that you might even make a profit on? Spending so much on education is slightly more risky long term than a house in an area with a good school?

I'd live to know what school this is (hoping it's not one of the ones we are considering for 6th form!). Can anyone PM me pls.

I might be wrong, but surely we are talking about Westminster here?

@Jane077 If it’s Westminster Under we are talking about, they seem to have had quite a few changes of Heads in the last 10 years which doesn’t help a school grow and develop.

@PatsyKen well I may be totally wrong, but I was interested because we turned down a place at Westminster and sometimes I wonder if we were nuts to do that so I'm always weirdly satisfied to find that perhaps it's not all that it's cracked up to be (hmm weird nut joke in there that I didn't intend!)

If it's Westminster, I'd better withdraw my previous comments as I thought it was Habs....!

I know which school you are talking about OP. I looked around it and was distinctly underwhelmed, possibly because I was expecting great things. Am very nearby and it is seen as the holy grail of schools so quite nice to hear a bit of negativity!

I’m assuming they’re talking about Habs boys.

Fabulous school but I’m yet to be convinced it’s worth the best part of £20K+ plus a year over and above some of the local state options. If you look at the results, destinations and friendship groups of the boys there and those at outstanding local comprehensives (where lots of them have siblings I might add) it’s negligible and equally the teachers themselves move between the two