Withholding fees for now - anyone else?

[Chocstar]

My DC attend a prep school and I've been so utterly disappointed by the provision so far that I am holding back from paying the term's fees at present. I don't think the school is providing any work in a way that is engaging in any way shape or form. Just wondering if anyone else has held back paying this term's fees for now for these reasons?

This is going to make so many schools look at their terms and conditions again to address this.

For my youngest's school, the phrase they use all the time is Continuity of Education. This refers to the term they have used in their T&Cs. They clearly are demonstrating they are fulfilling this - even though it's not like a normal school term.

Schools who have old or not fit for purpose T&Cs are going to face the odd legal action. Annoyingly. I'd sure schools would rather be using their resources to better support students and staff rather than instruct solicitor letters to parents 🤷🏻‍♀️

Quite.

I can't imagine any contract includes the terms 'quality of education' or any other of the nonsense spouted up thread.

I'd love to see a contract that did. It could say something like fees should be paid, unless in the event of a pandemic and you decide the materials should be more engaging, then feel free to not pay.

@Bflatmajorsharp I wrote a post earlier on in this thread which detailed what she has received. The suspicion is that ALL staff have been furloughed apart from the head. It is a very small prep and wasn’t looking in the best of shape before all of this to be fair.

A single A4 sheet of suggested projects “for the next few weeks”, a link to Twinkl and Mathletics (which hasn’t been updated since before Easter when her eldest had already completed all the tasks allocated so is useless). An A4 sheet is hardly education, let alone teaching. No communication from the school by any method since it was issued from a generic school email address on Sunday. They are not answering the phones or replying to emails. There’s not even an “out of office” reply with information. Eldest is in Y5 and she emailed asking if she could make arrangements for the verbal and non verbal reasoning books her child had been using to be sent or collected (using social distancing). No response.

The last week of term they were told to just take an extra week of holiday and the teachers would use it, along with the Easter holiday to pull together the plans for Summer term. Apart from the “work” emailed to them there has been no communication from the school.

This, of course, looks like the school is on the brink of closure. It will be one of the first of many I would imagine.

But yes, she has received nothing that could be classed as education or teaching since the week before they broke up for Easter.

Doesn't sound promising. And of course, what you describe isn't acceptable.
Is it a very small school that was struggling for numbers anyway? These are least able to cope in these circumstances.

right, so this isn't about whether to pay fees because lessons are being on line or whatever, but that the school seems to have disappeared.

No - it was some sympathy for the OP in case she was in similar circumstances. Imagine having your income cut off and then being faced with that and worrying about what to do. Just pointing out that remote learning might be perceived as poor because the school has other issues behind the scenes.

Although OP had already described something very different happening at her children's eg things being uploaded throughout the week, so she's not in the same position at all.

Yes, it sounds like that school just about exists on paper at the moment and it won't be long before it's gone completely. It would be very sensible for all parents with children at the school who aren't due to leave at the end of summer to look for alternative schools now tbh.

That's a bit different to wanting your children to return in September but feeling that the current work isn't engaging enough, or being cross that your children can't work completely independently, or that you don't have enough devices for the whole household to be working at the same time, or cross that your child can't access all the 'extras' that they usually can at school, as posters have been on this thread.

@Zodlebud Wow that really isn't promising at all. I would definitely be looking elsewhere in your friend's situation but not ideal with a Y5 who wants to take 11+

Exactly, so it highlights that they are getting something for their money although it might not be meeting their expectations. There are schools where children are getting nothing.

Withholding fees can literally tip some schools over the edge as demonstrated by my friends experience. I don’t believe that parents should have to fork out to “save” schools - many different sorts of businesses will cease to trade because of this - but in not paying you are contributing to their ultimate demise. Engaging with the school about your concerns is the way to deal with it properly and if you’re not happy then communicate this then try and negotiate your notice and go elsewhere.

I am amazed by how many people think that everything will be all singing and dancing through these unprecedented times.

Maybe the school will close completely. Is that a possibility?

It happened locally two years ago when a bunch of ex parents got together and decided to sue the school for perceived failings (despite high attainment levels)

The local school system went in to melt down as they couldn’t accommodate kids from the school and other local fee paying schools were full. Thankfully a new organisation stepped in and the school re-opened for this year.

OP, you have a contract to pay fees. If you don’t the school may well disappear. Is that what you want?

@Zodlebud I think you've hugely highlighted my point though, that unless you know the specific circumstances, contract etc, advising people the school are in breach will likely cause more problems then it will solve.
I agree your friends school most definately sound like they are completely in breach, but that is a different circumstance to the majority of the people who are stating they shouldn't pay or telling others not to pay.
Advising others to not pay without sufficient knowledge could lead to huge problems down the line (although I'm not suggesting you where one of those people)

@Littlefoxkit

No teaching = breach of contract

Some teaching but not to the parents liking = probably not breach of contract but could be tested in the courts if you are rich / obtuse enough to want to pursue?

Unlikely to be honest Zodlebud.

'Continuity of education' is - deliberately - a broad term.

I haven't read all this thread but no fees, no schooling

@Bflatmajorsharp please read my previous post. I never said anything about whether such a position would win in a court of law. I said if you wanted to pursue it you could (if you felt it was important enough or you have money to burn).

If a school is very clearly not meeting it’s obligations then you have a strong case. It’s not meeting your expectations - it’s down to you to fight that one.

Normally I think parents are being ridiculous in their expectations of schools at this time but if it was like @Zodlebud describe I'd have more sympathy (as it sounds the school doesn't actually exist anymore!).

What a terrible self centred attitude. We are coping with a national crisis. This has definitely brought out the best and worst in people.

Chocstar I understand.

Among the fee-paying schools I know around here, some have done way better than others in providing support.

I get the impression that the provision for primary age children is less good than secondary. But I know one school - with a top reputation - that wasn't prepared and just sent them home early last term, and now this term has a bit of a patchy system and very complicated. I was lucky - my child's school set an incredible example - they were training the kids a couple of weeks before lockdown, and continued seamlessly at home with full day lessons delivered via live teacher/class interaction and material with live editing that all the class can see. It's superb, and does put other schools to shame.

I understand what you feel your school should be providing, because ours has actually done that.

I'm afraid this is an unprecedented test of school leadership, and it sounds like your school has foundered a bit. I understand why you don't want to pay, because you feel they aren't doing a good job of dealing with the current parameters and providing a service. Compared to other schools.

But unfortunately that's the school you're in, and you are contractually obliged. Although they've broken the deal by not stepping up, one could argue.

They must have furloughed teachers so won't have that massive overhead. I don't know. People are slating you for not being 'kind', but I understand why you feel they aren't making the effort. There's no reason why they shouldn't. Lockdown isn't an excuse to give up. On anything.

For every parent (not many luckily) who are withholding the fees and will not have a place in September they are many more on waiting lists so if you are withholding fees you need to approach your LA to names on waiting lists for state schools.

@Stellamboscha that might be true for top city schools but lots of rural prep schools don't operate waiting lists and are fairly marginal financially.

That's true, but you also know that if you withhold fees, you won't receive any education this term - you will be cut off from any provision. Schools usually have a time period in their contract, after which non-payment of fees results in children not being allowed at school. And of course, any relationship with the school will be ruined, even if you somehow managed to return later.

I don't think very many people plan to withhold fees in an obvious way, as the thread title rather goadily suggests. Even Op says she doesn't really intend to....I guess the thread title was to get traffic. Anyone who did, wouldn't just be making a protest about current provision in an attempt to get an improvement, but basically ending the relationship with the school and for their children. Most people really don't want to do that, especially now when finding an alternative would be rather difficult.

So I just take the thread as not really being being about withholding fees, but another moany thread about remote learning provision. It's another where people discuss what is a good way to deliver remote learning and the realities of it, along with discussion about paying for something you are contractually committed to, which changes during lockdown. It's not really about people planning to pay zero.

There might be some people who tell the school they can't afford to pay the full fee (or discounted fee which is offered) when actually they've had no change in circumstances. They might tell this lie if they feel really disgruntled and because they aren't actually willing to refuse to pay......probably because they know they haven't really got a leg to stand on. I suspect very few who can afford to pay have refused outright. They might have a feeling they would like to, and others might feel they ought to have a bigger discount (although when people think this through logically in terms of the costs the school is facing, being contractually bound and the school providing the level of service they expect in the long term,for their child, they might realise that again it would be hard to make a very strong case for this) than offered, but will either pay up or lie about ability to pay rather thN directly challenge the level of provision.

I do understand the feeling people have often initially had about paying a bill for thousands, when they are receiving something quite different to the usual. I think most people initially had the thought 'hold on, is this right to be charged X for Y'. But then, most people were able to think it through. They could see the circumstances are unique. They could see that they want the school there in future for their child and they paid X in previous terms for X and if they want X again in future for their child, they will have to pay what the school is saying it requires and that the school will be providing what it can, even if it can't be the same as usual. So they shake their heads and feel a bit disappointed but realise it's really no-ones fault and that its just on elf those things......and get their metaphorical choice books out. And most also accepted that what the school is providing is evolving, because most know that it takes time to develop a really good system. Most schools managed to wheel something out before Easter, but that was very hurried, and then worked very hard over Easter training staff and modifying systems and work, som something rather different emerged after Easter and no doubt many schools will be further modifying in light of experience and feedback. Most parents can see that is inevitable and manage to show some patience. Isn't showing some patience necessary in lots of areas of life at the moment, rather than s shouting of 'I'm paying, so you deliver what I demand right now'.

ponchek surely this is a massive test of lots of things, more complex than school leadership.

Schools with lots of teachers who are unwell, or who have their own children at home simply can't provide full days of live teaching.

Teachers in rural areas where wifi connections are unstable and patchy won't be able to provide a seamless experience.

Schools that have had to furlough staff to try to save some cash in the short term won't be able to do that either. Furlough is basically the govt offering an IOU which hopefully will be honoured for 80% of staff salaries in due course.

It's fairly obvious that this will impact smaller, rural schools proportionally much more than large, urban ones.

Wombat agree with everything you say.

Additionally, speak to your actual school if you have concerns/suggestions.

Op - withhold fees if you like, but then know that there won’t be enough money to keep the school going or to pay staff. But that’s ok. You can send your child to a state school in September, if there are spaces available.