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Withholding fees for now - anyone else?

150 replies

Chocstar · 22/04/2020 19:53

My DC attend a prep school and I've been so utterly disappointed by the provision so far that I am holding back from paying the term's fees at present. I don't think the school is providing any work in a way that is engaging in any way shape or form. Just wondering if anyone else has held back paying this term's fees for now for these reasons?

OP posts:
Mawbags · 23/04/2020 12:01

You’re getting 30% off and you’re whingeing? Seriously? We’re not getting a penny off, yes they’re setting work and lots of it, and are videoing maths lessons etc but it is honestly nothing like the same and I’m massively pissed off with the arrogant sods.

Given their resources you’d expect the independent schools be able to facilitate zoom meetings with parents to discuss the situation rather than dictate. It’s the high handed ness that I really resent.

HostaFireAndIce · 23/04/2020 13:45

So, term has started now, if you haven't paid, you are already withholding the fees.

Our term started today, but we haven't even received our termly invoice yet!

WombatChocolate · 23/04/2020 13:57

It's pretty simplistic to think you can say 'they are paying less and getting more'

In independent schools, it just isn't the case that it is always possible to e a toy measure what you are 'getting' or that it is directly related to the exact amount you pay.

Most independent school parents don't try to connect each penny they spend to a specific thing they 'get' but I guess that is how some people think or try to measure it....even though it is very hard to quantify and value in monetary terms what is provided.

I think it's a mistake to see the number of hours a teacher is visible online, as equating to the school providing more. Schools are assessing what is the best way to teach children of different ages in the current climate. They are reaching different judgements in the same way different schools do in normal times about the best ways to do things.

Number of hours the teacher is visible online isn't a great measure of it the school is earning it's money. Many schools have recognised that some flexibility is needed at this time - parents are working and so want to be able to sit with their young children while they work and find it better to do that in the evening or weekend. Some have key workers as parents who need so sleep some of the day and the house to be quiet or an adult isn't available for input,Many children are sharing a laptop with a sibling and can't both be online at the same time. Sitting in front of a screen watching a teacher for extended periods of time isn't helpful for anyone, but especially very small children.

So, when schools send lots of different possibilities home, they are trying to accommodate the vast range of circumstances people find themselves in. When they send some work to be done by the children without the teacher, or by the children with the parent, they aren't doing it to shirk their responsibilities and have a quiet afternoon in the garden...but it has been deemed to be a good way to learn in conjunction with other stuff provided. Most people can see this bigger picture but some can only measure 'quality of education' or value for money by how many hours the teachers face is live in front of them.

I think there is some anger out there amongst a minority of parents in both state and Independnet sectors at the moment. Some of it arises because parents are stressed working from home and finding it hard to have the children at home and want the school to occupy them fully during the school day so that they almost aren't there at home. Some of it arises because parents can't imagine what teachers might be doing if they aren't live on the screen and think they must be dossing about. Some of it arises because people are hard up and worrying about fees and express this in terms of deciding the school isn't value for money. Some of it is people who can only see a very short term relationship between what they pay this term and what they receive this term, rather than the longer term impact of fees on what schools can provide into the future for their children. Some of it is because some schools are providing a poor show and haven't improved when parents have clearly communicated their frustrations.

Is anyone of here actually withholding fees? This is the thread title. Op hasn't made it entirely clear if she has or will be withholding fees, even though they have been reduced by 30%.

Again, if not happy the way forward is to communicate it. Communicate it every day if you feel the need. Engage about what you think should be provided and why and what the school's reasoning is behind what they are providing - perhaps their explanation will satisfy you when you hear it, or not. But you are contracted to pay until the contract ends. You can end it by giving notice and withdrawing your child as per the terms of the contract.

The supporters of the Op don't seem to want to engage with the basic contractual facts - that there are formal complaint processes, contracts can be ended and children withdrawn and that then fees can stop be being paid.....but until then, they are contractually due.

In reality, most people on here who are saying they are not happy don't want to actually engage in serious discussion with the school about what is being provided and what should be provided. They have a bit of a feeling of discontent but would struggle to say exactly what is amiss. They don't want to withdraw their children. They do want the school to be there next term and next year. BUT at the same time they have a general sense of unsettledness that lots of people have at the moment generally. They don't like paying out the fees and feel a bit aggrieved about it and so moan here and on social media and to other parents. But actually they don't really want to engage with the school about it all in a meaningful way. Personally I think it's a bit cowardly.

Viviennemary · 23/04/2020 14:00

Some schools seem to be providing very little in the way of education so I would resent paying fees for nothing. If the school was making an effort to provide good quality work and engage with pupils and parents then I would pay.

Bluewater1 · 23/04/2020 14:34

We have only had a 10% decrease but the lessons are pretty interesting and the support by message is good too. We are paying because we want the school to still be running after this is all over plus it's the agreement we signed up to. I believe any withholding of fees would result in a loss of place from September. You can't hold the fees as ransom....

ChloeDecker · 23/04/2020 14:52

I didn't mention on this thread anything about my DH, so I'm not sure where you got that my DH is a teacher from?

Because you recently posted on Mumsnet that he was.

ChloeDecker · 23/04/2020 14:55

you and the others are unfairly bashing the op for non payment as it ultimately protects your jobs.

Doesn’t protect my job. I am not a teacher in an independent school.

MyCruiseControl · 23/04/2020 15:23

@Chocstar I haven't been through the whole thread and I don't know whether someone has already advised you. Right now, the schools are in breach of their contracts. Their contract is not just to 'educate', it is to provide quality education. And you and they agreed what a quality education is when you enrolled your children. You have been paying for that for a while and obviously never complained. If you now feel they are not providing that right now, you are well within you rights to refuse to pay the fees. However, that could backfire as the head might decide that s/he doesn't want your children back in September. Also, even if they are allowed to come back in September, you'll find there is bad blood there and the relationship between your family and the school may never be repaired. I am sorry to say that this crisis has exposed good and bad businesses and also good and bad schools. Regardless of what people here have posted, the schools were given enough time to prepare for this and they were told not to expect to be back before September. Any school not able to cope, ought to give parents their money back. Full stop. No ifs, no buts. I find Brits are quite alright with mediocrity and will put up with all sorts of crap. People are feeling sorry for businesses that can't pay their rent this month. Any business small or large that can't pay rent because it hasn't had customers for 2 weeks was not a viable business to begin with. A school that is incapable to providing quality work for the children because they are not at school, is run by inept people. Don't they plan lessons? Haven't they already got a curriculum plan they can follow? They can even send parents pdfs of work to print out. They are using this as an excuse for their incompetence. There are many state schools with less money providing great work for all their pupils including their disadvantaged ones.
I can't believe the number of people here who are paying fees and think it's alright to carry on regardless. That's why the government will let thousands of people die and people still applaud them.

FiddleOnTheRoof · 23/04/2020 15:26

wombatchocolate another teacher name calling those that disagree ‘cowards’ is petty and frankly beneath you. There really isn’t any need to go to these depths to argue you teacher perspective.

Soo many assumptions made in your post, I can’t frankly be bothered to deal with any but one! I have raised my concerns so please refrain from making demons out of every parent trying to do the best for their families (put them first not the school) which I sympathise will impact your income.

I am sure we are adult enough to just express our feelings and concerns on both sides with the snide comments, demonising assumptions and aggression from those that disagree!

FiddleOnTheRoof · 23/04/2020 15:28

Without the snide comments, demonising assumptions and aggression from those that disagree!‘

iamapixie · 23/04/2020 15:34

I want my DC to be able to go back to an up-and-running school staffed with familiar faces. The provision is patchy because online learning is really not at all ideal and teachers are finding their way, especially in the "softer" subjects like drama and art, but it is what it is, we thought long and hard before taking the place to decide whether we could afford it, and we still can afford it, so I feel it is my duty to do so.

Bflatmajorsharp · 23/04/2020 15:35

MyCruiseControl you're talking nonsense.

Schools are not 'in breach of their contracts'. They are responding as best as they can to a global pandemic.

They didn't have 'plenty of time to prepare' - they had a few days notice.

Nor has any school been told that it's shut until September.

Many teachers are also parents. Do you think they should claim that their usual childcare has 'breached its contract' and refuse to pay as well?

Bflatmajorsharp · 23/04/2020 15:37

'A school that is incapable to providing quality work for the children because they are not at school, is run by inept people.'

Um, no. It's a school that has never had to provide a term's worth of work for children to do at home and has no protocols to follow around this.

MyCruiseControl · 23/04/2020 16:01

@Bflat They are in breach of their contracts. And no amount of dismissing takes that fact away. That's why many schools have said you are more than welcome to take your child out although we would like you to stay and pay. These schools are not responding to a major pandemic. All they've been asked to do is provide an education near enough to what they would have done if their pupils were at school.
They were given nearly 5 weeks notice by DfE before the shutdown. By that February half term they already knew of the possibility of shutting down. I know because my children's schools kept us informed right from the start of the possibility of shutting the school temporarily if coronavirus shows up among pupils and staff. By the beginning of March it was a certainty that they would shut and likely not open until September. So if you already had a curriculum plan, I believe 3 weeks is enough time to plan work. Add the fact that we've also had Easter, schools could have paid their teachers extra to spend a few days putting together a work plan for the summer term. That they've failed to do so is because they believe people like you will accept mediocre education for your children and still pay for it.
If a school doesn't have protocols for providing education for a child who either because of health problems or family problems has to miss school for a few weeks, that school should not accept payment for education. Even state schools have protocols in place if a child is unable to attend.

CanIbesomeoneelse · 23/04/2020 16:14

How are they going to pay teachers extra when parents are withholding fees?

WhyCantIthinkOfAgoodOne · 23/04/2020 16:28

The whole "may not be a school to go back to" line annoys me as this could apply to any number of companies - how many of those would charge the same for a vastly reduced service?

Surely it depends how much you care about the company going bust. If my mobile phone network ceased to operate I really wouldn't care that much (at least from a selfish perspective). I'd just find a different provider - it would take about 30 minutes of my life. If my DC's school folded it would be a massive headache. It would be incredibly disruptive for both kids who love their school. There's no space in the local state school so I'd have a short drive to a rubbish state or a very long drive to another local indie - which I might not even get a space at and would really mess with my work schedule. So I'm very much more invested in keeping the school afloat than another random business I happened to use.

ChloeDecker · 23/04/2020 16:33

They were given nearly 5 weeks notice by DfE before the shutdown

Now I know you are on the wind up.

Have a lovely day! Daffodil

CanIbesomeoneelse · 23/04/2020 16:33

I find the short-sightedness baffling

MyCruiseControl · 23/04/2020 16:45

@ChloeDecker The outbreak in Northern Italy was at the beginning of February and many schools that had trips or pupils that had come back from there closed temporarily. That was when communications started on shutting schools. At that point it all looked temporary but by the beginning of March, it was obvious there was going to have to be a shutdown of some sort. Schools were then informed of the lockdown and were asked to prepare work for pupils. Then they weren't offered a date when they would reopen. By the time the schools closed in March, they had already been told that there was a possibility that they wouldn't return until September because the numbers looked bad and the whole herd immunity thing had been put to bed. Scientists always thought we would need a lockdown + something else for 16 weeks and that would take us towards the start of August.

SeasonFinale · 23/04/2020 16:45

That's fine. Don't pay them then. Give notice. Find other schools for the kids.

Bflatmajorsharp · 23/04/2020 16:49

MyCruiseControl of course schools have protocols in place for when a child isn't able to attend for a long period of time, or their attendance is very intermittent due to illness or treatment.

They meet with the parents and create a personalised and flexible plan to support that individual. The state primary that my children go to did exactly that with a friend's child for the whole of last year. They were amazing, in fact.

Are you seriously equating that situation with being abruptly informed that schools will close in a few days, no idea how long for?

If it was that easy to provide remote learning, don't you think independent schools would have cottoned on to to this fab money saver and dispensed with buildings and grounds years ago.

They could reduce fees significantly too. It could be just the same quality of education and experience for the children as travelling into school each day.

Or perhaps it wouldn't.

And 'people like me'. What a strange thing to say - we've never met.

Flowers Flowers Flowers

Happygirl79 · 23/04/2020 16:51

You should raise you concerns with the school and make suggestions if you feel you know better BUT you have a contract and must pay the fees

Bflatmajorsharp · 23/04/2020 16:52

If the UK had been taking what was happening elsewhere in the world seriously in February, there wouldn't have been school trips returning from Italy or anywhere else at half term.

Hardly any schools were closed, and those that were it was for a day or so for a deep clean once someone had become symptomatic.

It's extraordinary how you think schools (who only found out who they key workers were on the morning of the 20 March) were so far ahead of the rest of the country in planning for this pandemic.

Bflatmajorsharp · 23/04/2020 16:54

Also, lots of organisations are asking people who have bought tickets etc not to request a refund if they possibly can afford it precisely so that there will be a theatre/sporting event for them to visit this time next year (fingers crossed).

Devlesko · 23/04/2020 16:59

That's good, we had 25% off last terms fees, worked out about £27 for us Grin.
I don't blame you if they haven't been setting work, ours has absolutely no change at all, continuing from day one, teams and skype set up. Mine is Y11 too, but she's still getting plenty to do.