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Withholding fees for now - anyone else?

150 replies

Chocstar · 22/04/2020 19:53

My DC attend a prep school and I've been so utterly disappointed by the provision so far that I am holding back from paying the term's fees at present. I don't think the school is providing any work in a way that is engaging in any way shape or form. Just wondering if anyone else has held back paying this term's fees for now for these reasons?

OP posts:
TimeForChange123 · 23/04/2020 02:53

It's almost as if something huge is happening in the world OP..not sure what.

How awful that people aren't living up to your expectations at this time time 🙄

ChloeDecker · 23/04/2020 07:44

The whole "may not be a school to go back to" line annoys me as this could apply to any number of companies - how many of those would charge the same for a vastly reduced service? If mobiles only worked for an hour or two a day, people would complain about the rates, if urgent repairs needed doing in a flat, tenants would expect a discount in these circumstances etc (crap analogies, but I'm tired)!

I don’t understand. You acknowledge she has already been given a fair discount then you write the above. The OP wants to withhold all payment and in your analogies, that would also get the same reaction (tenants withholding all the rent in your given circumstance, customers paying nothing even for their hours of usage etc). You say what has been written is unfair but then you go on to give examples that show the OP is being unfair!

Let’s remember that there have been four directly communicated online videos in three days and work set plus reading. The content is not to the OP’s liking (which leads
me to wonder if she normally complains about what is being taught) but instead of contacting a teacher or office staff to have a reasonable discussion about it, the first reaction is to withhold complete payment even though a service has been provided.

That’s the reason for the replies on this thread, to be fair.

ChloeDecker · 23/04/2020 07:49

Also unhappy with my child playing online games all day in between the peace meal home learning work provided by school.

That’s down to you, not teachers or the school.

LolaSmiles · 23/04/2020 07:54

Let’s remember that there have been four directly communicated online videos in three days and work set plus reading. The content is not to the OP’s liking (which leads me to wonder if she normally complains about what is being taught) but instead of contacting a teacher or office staff to have a reasonable discussion about it, the first reaction is to withhold complete payment even though a service has been provided.

This ^^
There's a fee discount and work provided.
It's just not in line with the OP's preferences.

WombatChocolate · 23/04/2020 08:19

Fiddle, what in your view would be a service that meets your expectations, rather than falling short? I think a number of parents at the moment have some kind of sense of 'not meeting expectations' because a full day in school isn't being provided as usual, but can't quite work through what 'meeting expectations' might be in the current circumstances. So they feel a bit aggrieved (often because they are having to make a bigger input with their children or because their children are not engaged directly by teachers from 8-4) but haven't really thought about what is actually possible during these circumstances.

People can take a short term view and say they haven't received the 8-4 teaching they paid for and so won't pay for the period it isn't available. Schools will then find they need to lay teachers off and when normal school resumes, the service available won't be what you expect then either.

I really think there is a failure of imagination amongst some people. There is a failure to see that the current times are very unique, but hopefully temporary. There is a failure to see beyond the 'I paid for X,y,z' and unless I get X, y,z in that exact form, I shouldn't have to pay. There is a failure to show some kind of patience - appreciating that changing a whole system doesn't just happen instantly, but people are working really hard to improve it all the time. There is a failure to see that what children can manage in terms of concentration and focused work at home isn't 8-4 solid and that younger ones will need significant adult input. There is a failure to recognise that discounts have been offered to reflect the fact the service isn't the same as signed up for and that schools face costs which are very close to thesis they would have if open as usual. Mostly, there is s failure to think through the implications of people not paying now on the future of the schools and therefore the education available to our children.

I think there are some cross and grumpy parents out there. The ones complaining and suggesting withholding fees often have the least understanding of what education really involves or that at its most successful, it always involves input from parents, regardless of how much is being paid. The people complaining want the school to fully occupy their children 8-4 and a lot of the upset is the fact that as parents they are now having to do more of the occupying - but that is the reality of lockdown. There is a failure to see the bigger picture and to take a 'bear with' attitude which is needed during these kind of times. I suspect the people wanting to withhold fees, have also cut of payment to their cleaners instantly and wouldn't consider continuing any of their subscriptions so the services might still be there in future. It's very much a short term view about now.

But when those services aren't what they were before the virus, I expect the same people will be first to complain. But they won't have any appreciation that some of their actions now have contributed to services in further being worse.

Again, it's all about communication,Mather than just quietly seething about the provision. Speak clearly and frequently if you are not satisfied and don't expect the school to know by osmosis. Tell them exactly what they are not providing that you expect for your 70% fees. Ask them to get back to you about changes.

But pay up, as your contract requires as as the school requires so it can pay its staff next week. Keep the communication going all term if needed - as a paying parent you are very entitled to talk about the provision - as someone who has reneged on their contract, you really aren't.

When will you be paying Op - it's not several days after the D start of term.

AppleKatie · 23/04/2020 08:44

We have got three types of parent at the moment.

  1. like OP who believe that they should be getting all day bells and whistles exciting, stimulating virtual teaching that is as good if not better than normal school for a fraction of the cost.
  1. Those who are grateful and paying what is asked whilst realising we are doing our best in extraordinary times.
  1. Those that don’t mind paying but would really prefer us to back off entirely and leave them and their family alone to deal with this in their own way at their own pace but just be there when schools reopen to help pick up the pieces.

Schools are walking a tightrope and literally cannot please all of the people all of the time.

Zodlebud · 23/04/2020 09:12

@Chocstar Have you used any of the material set by the school? If so you have received something and so you should pay something.

In your defence though, my friends prep has given a 10% discount and has provided a single A4 sheet of project work to be done over the course of the week, links to Twinkl worksheets and some work set on their online maths thing they were using before lockdown anyway. No online teaching due to “child protection”, staff not available on email or phone. It is assumed that pretty much all the staff have been furloughed but this has not been explained to parents if it is the case. And they want £4k per child for that. I would be seriously aggrieved BUT not so much by the lack of work but the way the school has been totally unprepared for coming “back” to school and their total lack of communication. The work is being sent from a generic school email address and nobody replies to questions about either work or fees and work is not being marked. It says a lot about both the leadership of the school and its financial viability.

She has given notice and her children are starting a new school in September. She has asked for them to waive the terms notice (she gave it three days in) and claimed that the school is in breach of contract as they haven’t provided ANY teaching.

So have you been provided with any teaching? It might not be what you would be expecting but it’s something.

FiddleOnTheRoof · 23/04/2020 09:43

Very interesting discussion unfortunately clouded by those with a conflict of interest. I think for the purpose of transparency, if you are a teacher telling the op and everyone else to pay, you should declare your interest...

FiddleOnTheRoof · 23/04/2020 09:44

Should have said, teacher, head, governor etc... your view would clearly conflict with the op....

crazychemist · 23/04/2020 09:58

@FiddleOnTheRoof, I am a teacher encouraging OP to pay (just declaring). I’m also a mum trying to look after a 3yo because her preschool is closed, and I’m paying 70% for that.

OP, I know this must be incredibly difficult and frustrating for you. You pay good money in the hope of getting a really good education for your children. You’ve been given a discount, but it’s not like that means you still have 70% of your normal time to do your own job, nor are your children getting 70% of the usual value. I’m in the same boat with regard to my daughter - I don’t consider that preschool is of much academic value really, but I wanted her to go for the social education that it provides, and obviously she can’t have that now.

Have you spoken to the school about what you want? As @AppleKatie says, schools get very different messages from different parents, and we are really doing our best to provide what we can. Do you know what it is you want? Have you told the teacher that? Trust me, we all want things to go as smoothly as possible as we want the children we get back in September to be as close to where we’d expect as possible.

It’s difficult to argue not paying fees at this stage. The term has started, I assume that you have a contractual notice period? And I bet the school took a deposit when you joined to cover them for non-payment. If you withhold payment you jeopardise you’re child’s place for September, and will also get yourself a reputation as “one of those parents” (and I’m afraid as teachers we all know who they are....).

Viviennemary · 23/04/2020 10:03

I absolutely would not pay. And reading some of those posts I would be more determined thsn ever not to pay. No delivery slots at at Tescos never mind just pay what you would usually pay anyway. They are doing their best.

ChloeDecker · 23/04/2020 10:05

FiddleOnTheRoof

Why? The OP’s DH is a teacher in an independent school. What you are suggesting is that some posts should be ignored due to certain circumstances. Nothing is ever that straightforward. That’s not how this works.

ChloeDecker · 23/04/2020 10:07

No delivery slots at at Tescos never mind just pay what you would usually pay anyway. They are doing their best.

No delivery, you don’t pay. Get your slot at an inconvenient time or not everything you ordered, get a discount, yes.

Viviennemary · 23/04/2020 10:12

Want a loaf of bread. None left. Take a tin of beans and think yourself lucky. I think those private schools have a massive cheek asking parents to pay. Furlough the staff and parents pay 20% of the fees would be reasonable under the circumstances.

FiddleOnTheRoof · 23/04/2020 10:18

ChloeDecker you and the others are unfairly bashing the op for non payment as it ultimately protects your jobs. I am not asking anyone to ignore any posts, but declare your position as this makes the discussion more transparent. It also ensures we are all better able to understand all views as they properly sit in the mix.

crazychemist being ‘one of those parents’ is exactly why you need to declare your interest as THATS as close as you are likely to get to name calling the op and others who disagree with supporting a company financial when we are ALL struggling to pay other bills!

In these times, the school’s contract is unlike to hold water so please stop throwing this around like a hammer to force payment. I’d much prefer hearing how resources won’t be the same, lost of teachers and let’s take a long term view as this better appeals to my compassion.

Pay as you are contracted to do, will make many, deep their heels in and refuse, as the school right now doesn’t have a leg to stand on, in my view!

AppleKatie · 23/04/2020 10:35

Furlough the staff and parents pay 20% of the fees would be reasonable under the circumstances

Presumably you’d be happy with no ongoing education during this period then?

Hannah021 · 23/04/2020 11:04

@FiddleOnTheRoof I'm not a teacher.

The bottom line is, she should follow the procedure. Withholding money is not how we handle these situations. She can communicate what she needs, give them time to respond; they had their time and she's still not happy, time to look elsewhere, find another place and hand in her notice.

I'm unsure what the procedure is for officially homeschooling children and taking them out of school, but if paying isn't worth it, maybe that's an option she can review. Not paying and still keep them there to try to benefit from something she's not happy with, is just wrong.

WombatChocolate · 23/04/2020 11:17

What do those suggesting non-payment think will be the result of that for their children's future schooling in a year or 2 years time?

There are some schools which are doing little. The key here is to express that it seems unsatisfactory and engage about it.

There are also schools providing a mix of online love contact and resources - but some parents feel this is inadequate, but fail to see that 8-4 live contact with a teacher on a computer just isn't viable or a good way for children to spend their days. It wouldn't mean more learning for younger children.

Knowing what everyone else, elsewhere is 'getting' is a tricky one. It s hard to say what a brilliant remote learning provision from schools would be, because no-one has really done this before. So, for those who ate outraged by what they are getting, what exactly do they think should be provided and why do they think this will be better? Why are they so sure that something much better is provided elsewhere?

In the end, schooling at this won't be the same and can't be the same. If you decide that because it isn't provided in the way it usually is, and cannot accept that modifications have to be made, you might decide you shouldn't pay. However, when making that decision, you also have to accept the longer term consequences for the normal service when schools re-open.

Some schools aren't doing a great job. Yes...so call them up on it by communicating. Others are doing a good job educating children and providing a way for them to learn with a mixture of parental and teacher input - it's different to before, but learning is happening and schools will return to normal later if they are financially viable and people pay.

I have a sense that some people probably really resent the fees they pay normally. Perhaps they aren't happy with the school at the best of times and are quick to complain, if not to the school, to those around them. Sometimes those complaints are justified.

What to do then.....give notice as per the contract and leave and go elsewhere. Until that notice has been given and fulfilled, pay what is in many cases a reduced fee to reflect the change of circumstances. Simples.

WombatChocolate · 23/04/2020 11:20

Yes yes yes to Hannah.

The key is to follow procedure, not take matter into own hands and withhold fees.

Communicate, communicate,mcommunicate. Follow official complaints procedure as a customer who has paid. Then if dissatisfied, give notice following procedure you are legally contracted to and leave.

Definitely no renegade taking matters into own hands and just refusing to pay. Whether or not the school are in wrong, by withholding fees, legally you become the person in the wrong.

CanIbesomeoneelse · 23/04/2020 11:22

@Viviennemary you’re missing the point. It cannot be compared to ‘no delivery slots’ or ‘no bread’ - OP’s DC are being taught. If staff were furloughed as per your suggestion, they wouldn’t be working and therefore wouldn’t be teaching at all.

Lollygaggles · 23/04/2020 11:26

We are getting no discount and shit work. I'm paying because presumably they'll open again in September and my DS who is on the spectrum absolutely loves the place. We have had one phone call from the teacher in a month ( there are ten children in the class, so yeah...) and I expect another stream of bitty, crappy, unengaging work to be dumped on us this weekend. DS is still on"holiday" till Monday.

Quartz2208 · 23/04/2020 11:36

education at the moment is frustrating - its hard to get the balance right for everyone and meet everyone needs because very few of us know what we want or how. Or exactly what would make us happy apart from the one thing we know we cant have at the moment.

But you shouldnt be frustrated at the school or teachers - its situational and an incrdibly difficult new situation for which there was very little notice.

Engaging without being in a face to face context is next to impossible - its just is. Home education is engaging because the home educator is the one doing it. Nothing here is going to help

They have given you a discount - pay and then discuss how best they can meet the needs of your children

Pinkginhelps · 23/04/2020 11:45

My child is secondary school. Most work is online and very interactive. She is mentally tired by the time she is finished each day which is earlier than a normal day would be. I can't imagine how you expect young children to engage with a teacher and class . I suspect your school, the experts, know what they are capable of and have provided a schedule which your children can cope with. Be gentle with them and the school... Also yourself. Get through this as best you can and enjoy this time with your family. Pay the fees and thank your school and its teachers. I hope that they survive and will be there for your children when we all come out from this.

Chocstar · 23/04/2020 11:46

@FiddleOnTheRoof
Thank you for your comments. As you've asked for people to declare their positions, I thought I'd add that I'm a teacher.

So I do know what's engaging for children and what makes for a good lesson.

@ChloeDecker
I didn't mention on this thread anything about my DH, so I'm not sure where you got that my DH is a teacher from?

However, my DH is indeed a teacher. They are providing more at his school and they're paying less. DH has had to take a pay cut.

OP posts:
mumsonthenet · 23/04/2020 11:49

What standard or quality is of your expectation? Are you a teacher
Get over yourself