Corbyn, vat, private schools

[NoisingUpNissan]

So... Just worried about corbyn and private schools.

I'm naturally labour but couldn't vote for him with this.

We have two kids in prep, couldn't really afford any extra cash. As it stands we have a leaking bathroom (no bath for a year) and old unreliable shitty car, certainly not entitled or priveledged people. Not that it should matter.

Very annoyed as they are only there because ASD and they had 33 kids in their classes!

So, just wondering... Does anybody think this is a real risk?

I don't care if I come across as being all out for myself, I'm all out for my kids. My son is just too autistic to deal with a big class size and needs the extra work as he's v bright.

No one is judging her for that decision @TatianaLarina - it's entirely understandable.

They are...

It wasn’t all right that Diane Abbot sent her son to private school. Who says it was?

I’m pretty sure they could all afford private education for their children if they wanted it. As could I- before you raise the point! Some people have principles.

The key thing you need if you are an MP with 'principles' is a wife who will take the flack for insisting that your child goes to the local super selective grammar school, saving a fortune in school fees.

It seems to have worked for both Corbyn and Milne.

I don’t j wi about Milne- but Corbyn actually ended up divorced because of disagreements about education......

I can see why Diane Abbott made that decision. But yes, I do judge her for it. But as I said, it’s getting a bit tired now- any educational hypocrisy less than 16 years old?

OP you don't need to justify your decision.

I have kids in state school and think it's a stupid policy that would only appeal to a tiny section of the far left. Faith schools are a much bigger problem than the private sector and should be abolished ahead of private schools but I can't see any government paying churches for those schools to come under state control.

State school parents would be furious if catchments became even tinier and classes became bigger with less spent per head as a result of private schools being abolished. They'd be even angrier if the state paid the landowners for the building/land and they made a profit when education is so underfunded.

There's the other question of the teachers. Private schools don't require staff to have a teaching degree and teacher numbers are decreasing- there would either be a relaxing of the requirement that teachers are qualified or classes would get bigger as there's not enough teachers.

“And if you would like your kids to excel, and not just “do well” (whatever that might mean), then the option of going private is very important.” Really? So the option to excel is only available to private school kids? Wow.

If people want to move abroad, then fine, but I think we should take their British citizenship off them when they do. If they're not prepared to pay in, they shouldn't get the benefits.

There are many UK citizens who work for the country abroad in embassies, military bases, consulates... If they had their British citizenship stripped, who would work in these jobs?

I'm a dual national. Would living in the other country have be stripped of my British citizenship?

Why are you against British people living abroad? It's 2019, being British is more than living in Britain.

I will vote Labour over Tory any day of the week, but don’t see how this would work.

What’s to stop a private schools setting itself up with the same head, teachers, curriculum and fees as before.

People will pay.

I suppose the parents could be fined for not sending them to state school, but you could only do this if you banned home edding and tutoring.

It would be very hard to stop people paying for something that they want.

Really? So the option to excel is only available to private school kids? Wow.

No, but the odds of excelling are definitely far higher there than in a failing state school. That's indisputable, but no doubt you'll try

Verticality - so you want to remove British nationality from those who move abroad. Would you also want to remove nationality from people from abroad who move to Britain?

Totally agree that people will say that they are home ed then send their kids to a business for education purposes during that time. The business would not call itself school- they'd call it a home ed group or similar and could admit people based on ability to pay as they aren't schools so don't need an admissions code like state schools.

For some people there are only two types of state schools. Leafy and Failing. And bizarrely, considering that most actually failing schools are in areas of social disadvantage, mumsnetters seem to live in a sort of cluster round them.....

They'd have to ban all education where money changes hands- tutoring, kumon, sport, music etc so that someone doesn't use it as a loophole to private educate kids. Eg you couldn't have a football team for 15-16 year olds which had maths lessons afterwards as a loophole.

Any update on those cupcakes @BertrandRussell - I hope some of them are chocolate?

Just off to deliver- no chocolate today. Lemon, carrot and vanilla. Chocolate on Wednesday if you want to join the queue.....

I’m sure somebody in the Labour Shadow government must have been hypocritical more recently than 2003
Not sure there’s a statute of limitations on principles but, other than Diane Abbot, members of the shadow cabinet who have sent their children private; Shami Chakrabarti, Valerie Vaz and, of course, plenty of others were themselves beneficiaries of an expensive private education including Jeremy himself, Milne and Schneider. More still have happily sent their offspring to grammars, some super selective. And then of course, there’s the ones who have miraculously managed to get their children in to some of the most highly regarded state schools available. I have been involved in local state schools, in different capacities, for the last thirteen years, and I will continue to be so, supporting them and the excellent work they do, in the face of all kinds of obstacles. However, I don’t support this initiative partly because I simply cannot see how getting rid of independent schools will improve state schools. It’s the stunning hypocrisy I abhor. I particularly like shami Chakrabarti’s opposition to selective schools on the grounds of ‘social divisiveness and enforced segregation’ whilst sending her child to almost GBP19K pa Dulwich College. My own Labour MP, stood on a platform opposing grammar schools during the last election, whilst sending both their children to one. That was bad enough, it got worse when they claimed ‘they had no choice’ because we live in a grammar system and they are the best schools. They must think we’re idiots. They have principles certainly, it’s just that the principles are for other people, not them.

Corbyn actually ended up divorced because of disagreements about education

But his son still went to the super selective grammar school.

But as I said, it’s getting a bit tired now - any educational hypocrisy less than 16 years old?

As far as I know she was still trying to justify it today, so that particular bit of hypocrisy is a day old.

Plenty of children who go to private schools wouldn't do well anywhere. I pay school fees because my son with an ASD was not allowed to attend primary school full time because his behaviour was considered to be too disruptive. (In retrospect probably illegal, but at the time I was devoting all my mental energy to educating my son and feeling responsible for his inability to cope) We home educated for a bit and he now attends a private school. It's years since I received 'the call' from school, he is receiving an education and I have been able to return to work.

Having been able to home ed and find a fee paying alternative, I am much more privileged than the parents of children with SN who are regularly excluded from school for one reason or another, but not as privileged as the many more parents who can take their child's access to education for granted.

I'm sure the Labour plan is to solve all these problems, but my son started school after Labour had been power for 11 years, so I'm not holding my breath.

BTW, my son was excluded from a very leafy outstanding state school.

Well it works in Finland. It is illegal to charge for education. The result has been to improve state schooling for all. As there is no alternative, people push for better schools. There is no benefit to a Tory government to properly fund education when it's wealthy supporters and members can pay to go private. Same goes for all public services. In Finland the government funds it appropriately and the gap between rich and poor has been narrowed.

OP you should be cheering on a political party who wants to raise educational standards. The current system is failing your children.

Corbyn actually ended up divorced because of disagreements about education
I’m not suggesting you meant it that way, but I’ve had this used as a sort of ‘gotcha’ on how principled he is with regard to selective education, in a kind of ‘he’s so principled he was even willing to leave his wife and child because of it’ way. Oh yes , what a role model.

Ah yes, Finland - let’s ditch outstanding institutions that represent hundreds of years of British history in favour of the hard authoritarianism of a tiny, homogeneous country with a population around half that of London.

Or better yet, let’s not!

@BertrandRussell hey, I wanted to hear your answer to the scenario that @YobaOljazUwaque outlined earlier?

I’ve seen Bertrand on this before. Lines always the same. Maintain private schools are unfair and should be banned, while also maintaining they are no better than state schools, and making sure we all know she could afford them if she chose.
It’s funny the first couple of times. After that it gets a bit dull.

Yes I know.

Maybe she's busy furiously whipping up an Eton Mess?

I’m sure she’ll be back in a minute to tell us she could buy Eton and its mess if she wanted, but wouldnt deign to.