Attending Church, purely to get to a certain school

[sleepydad3000]

They're aren't many things I feel so strongly about, but this issue is one of them. I am currently looking at schools for my daughter. I am a non religious person and my partner is a none practising Catholic, doesn't go to church at all anymore.

I personally think it's wrong on a moral level to exploit a church for 6 months or however long, just to get your child to a certain school. It's almost like, "Oh hi, yes thankyou, I've got what I needed, you'll never see me again!"

2 schools near me are both decent, 1 outstanding and 1 good (Ofsted ratings) interestingly enough, the NON Catholic school has the higher mark as of 2017.... just saying. Both schools are great in my view, religion aside. But I'd feel awful and wrong and like I was cheating or manipulating the system, just to get my girl to a certain school, and then waving bye bye to the church after, as I know for a fact, my partner and I have no intention of going to church afterwards.

I think you will find it is the other way around and the Government or State funds Church schools! Faith schools can either be maintained by the local authority, or operate outside of local authority control (in the case of academies and free schools). So, I think you will find that many church schools are indeed under local authority governance.

Astonishingly to my mind, whilst it is unlawful for maintained and independent schools to discriminate against a child on the grounds of the child’s religion or belief in school admissions. However, faith schools are exempt and are permitted to use faith-based oversubscription criteria in order to give higher priority
in admissions to children who are members of, or who practise, their
faith or denomination.

Stinkytoe how can a faith school be doing great things for children of all walks of life, if it can exclude those not from its own faith? How is that inclusive or helpful within the local community in which it is situated?

It wasn't six months attendance to get into the local CofE secondary, it was years and years of commitment, and attending the CofE feeder primary.
Not a problem because we were believers and happy to go, though the vicar was seriously annoying.

I have no objection to non-believers attending to secure school places. While they're there, the children (and adults) get the benefit of community life, and the chance to learn the attitudes they will find in high school.

Wow! They will find a refreshing change from the materialist mindset of secular society, their children will find a place where kindness and sharing are valued way above competitive achievements, and they will be invited to take part in the church’s volunteer work in the community, helping the disadvantaged. Really? This assumes that those without faith are materialistic, unkind, don't share, are competitive and don't volunteer in the community to help the disadvantaged. Marvellous!

The kids who went to the church school where I used to live did come from some nice families like that, but also from a lot of mothers with sharp elbows.

the faith school near us is huge, building-wise, but they could choose whether or not to accept a bulge class - whereas the non-faith states couldn't and thus were squeezing children into sites really not big enough. I found that a rather poor attitude.

I'm Catholic and our kids attend Catholic school ( and yes we do go to church) but church attendance had zero to do with admissions. Admissions were through the council and the church had no say. I am surprised that's the case. I know the COf E schools had weekly church attendance on their criteria but it wasn't on the criteria for any if the Catholic schools around here.

Sugarbum. If you are not religious wtf were you doing in a church every Sunday? Wtf are your children doing with every hymn, prayer, vow, and so on. I am not religious either but I can see that lying about what you believe in to the extent that you will raise your children in a faith you have no interest in, is short sighted and disingenuous.

You don’t have to live a lie to get an education.

going to church doesn't equal raising your children in a faith. Anyone can attend church for any reason they like.

So daily worship at a faith school, and weekly attendance at a church doesn’t equal being raised in a faith?

Mymycherrypie - no particularly, although it will depend on how you define 'being raised in a faith'.

Faith schools have to teach the national curriculum just like all the other state schools. The emphasis on how much of the faith is shared within the school varies hugely and whilst RE is on the curriculum for all children up to 16, a parent may request that their child does not receive religious education. Parents are not required to give any reason for this and the school is expected to comply with their request.

no. I went to a private CofE school with daily assembly in the chapel and compulsory attendance of key services. I'm not CofE (I'm Catholic). There were plenty of Jewish and Hindu girls, a few Muslims, other Christian denominations and probably plenty of no faith at all.

I’m atheist but I’d like my DS to attend a school where the children have been raised with Christian values - to be kind and respectful and hardworking, and not steal or lie etc. So my choices are basically a private school (which I can’t afford) or a faith school. If I have to pretend to be religious in order to get DS a good education then I will. And the lesson I’m teaching him is that the end justifies the means. In this world you do what you have to do in order to get by. It may be hypocritical but in life you regularly have to be a hypocrite to succeed.

That's a stretch to suggest those who don't attend a Christian place of worship aren't brought up with all those values!

“to be kind and respectful and hardworking, and not steal or lie etc. So my choices are basically a private school (which I can’t afford) or a faith school.”
To use a Mumsnet staple-did you mean to be so rude?

Oh VelvetPineapple read your post back again! You want your child to go to a school with Christian values like being respectful and not lying and yet you intend to be disrespectful and lie to get your child into a faith school and tell them that hypocrisy is just fine.

There is so much mixed up thinking on this thread! Christians who believe policies of religious apartheid are fine and non-Christians who think lying their way into a faith school is equally fine.

All of which confirms in my mind that the State shouldn't continue to fund faith schools.

a parent may request that their child does not receive religious education.

Really? 2 years attendance at a church to con your way in and then opt out of religious activities? All to learn the values of not lying and upholding good values whilst telling a huge porkie, not just to yourself but to your children.

And I’d say that such a large participation in religious practise does constitute being raised in a faith. It’s exposure on at least 6 out of 7 days, at home and at school.

I don’t find it disrespectful or lying. The rules don’t say I have to believe in order to be eligible for a faith school. Just that I have to attend church regularly.

Mymycherrypie - er yes, any parent may request that their child does not receive religious education. Amazingly, sometimes non-faith children do legitimately get into faith schools!!!!!!!

That's a stretch to suggest those who don't attend a Christian place of worship aren't brought up with all those values!

Oh I’m not suggesting that at all. My own child is brought up in a non-religious family and is raised with those values, as are many others. But the proportion of children/families with good values is higher in a faith school.

VelvetPineapple find me a faith that believes this And the lesson I’m teaching him is that the end justifies the means. In this world you do what you have to do in order to get by. It may be hypocritical but in life you regularly have to be a hypocrite to succeed.

I understand that. And I assume they aren’t the ones that spent their children’s toddler years indoctrinating them in something they don’t believe in themselves then all for the benefit of the same education they could get elsewhere with less effort and no mixed messages.

Bullshit. Just... bullshit.

I don’t think that gaming an unfair system is immoral so I wouldn’t have a problem with doing it or explaining it to my kids.

Mymycherrypie, oh good, because in your earlier post it sounded as though you thought I was telling porkies saying that parents may request their child doesn't attend RE.