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Education

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will someone scold and spank me and remined me I am a stubborn socialist guardianista?

470 replies

twinsetandpearls · 28/06/2007 23:23

I have always made my feelings clear about private schools but the family has been working on me again and have ordered a proespectus for a private school that I have been idly flicking through and I have fallen in love with it and even - and this is a big deal for me - looked at the website.

For me this is a huge step and I am feeling sick with guilt, so guilty in fact that I have just re planned all my lessons tomorrow for my classes as some kind of penenance.

I need other socialist guardianistas to take me in hand.

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twinsetandpearls · 01/07/2007 20:15

dinasour the school dp want us to consider has secondary fees of £13K which go up to about £20K if you are a boarder.

Well today they have been upping the pressure as we went walking as usual on a Sunday and surprise surprise the walk wnet past the school and I had to admit it looked stunning but bricks and mortar don't make a good school.

I agree DC that there is a lot of work to be done on the state sector but it is wrong to damn it all as average and not good enough for my kids. Within my own department at the school I teach in (which I doubt very much you would send your kids to) we are beacons of excellence in the teaching of our subject and motivating children to produce work far beyong what they ever felt capable. I have been on training courses and worked with teachers from our local grammar and private schools and been shocked at their poor subject knowledge and the lack of awareness they have about the craft of teaching. These teachers have looked on in amazement when I have described the learning that goes on in my own classroom. I am not wanting to turn this into a private shit state wonderful debate as the issue is not that simple but it is a disservice to excellent teachers like myself to totally write of the state sector. Unfortunatley I cannot guarantee that all teachers work as hard as I do or have the skills I do. I could predict with some certainty that a lazy below par teacher in a private school will produce better results than if they were teaching in the state sector.

I also think that we should do more to support the state sector and I don't have time just does not wash, I hold down two jobs one of which as a teaching post is very demanding as well as my own studies and being a mother and partner, all while battling with an illness that saps the life from me. But I find the time to do voluntary work, be active within my own daughter;s school, be a governer, take an active role in local politics and trying to put my twopenneth in on the national scene.

I think I am close to making my decision, as 100X says I would be a nightmare parent in a private school, l already criticse my daughters present state school for not being inclusive enough.

But there is still a guilty voice nagging away in my head that dd will have a better education in terms of the breadth of subjects she can study, access to the arts and a more competitive environment in which I know she will thrive not to mention not having to deal with the discipline issues that I face on a constant basis in a state school.

But I can't get my head around delivering a standard of education to other people's children that I have declared to be unfit for my own child. It is like me going to the deli counter in Sainsbury's and hearing tha manager saying this food is alright for the plebs that shop here but I wouldn't give it to my own kids. It is a John Selwyn Gummer beefburger dilmena ( Oh no not only am I contemplating a private education I am comparing myself to tory MPs I truely have entered the dark side.

To survive in the kind of school I teach in you need to have 100% faith in what you are doing and why and I think that sending my dd to a school hidden away from the realities of life in the Lancashire countryside will weaken my own faith in what I do as a teacher and what I hope to help the children in my care to achieve. Today as we walked away from the school I tried to contemplate me doing something other than teaching and then perhaps I could send dd to a priavte school but I can't imagine doing another job.

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Judy1234 · 01/07/2007 20:16

Yes, if it didn't concern me I wouldn't be on threads like this because I would just pay to benefit mine and forget about the others.

Surely if you could benefit a child by paying you logically have to dmaage them, i.e. not benefit them as much by choosing not to pay. Just as if you feed them macdonalds all the time not good food you damage them. Obviously neither option do they starve to death or the educational equivalent in most reasonable state schools but you still aren't doing your best for them, assuming you're bright enough to get a job which pays enough to pay fees.

Rough figures are £10k day and £20k boarding. My daughter says boarding is cheaper if you have teenagers because you spend £10k on them if they're ave home anyway and it certainly may just about balance out if you're that sort of family as being a financially neutral difference between day and boarding, except I think boarding is bad for many children and the boarding schools in average don't get as good exam results and have just the same facilities as the good academic day schools.

twinsetandpearls · 01/07/2007 20:17

hatwoman you are so right, I have an incredible five year old who could chat to you very happily about the solar system and her favourite kings and queens, she is a whizz at her sums and loves to read. This has not come from a paid for exclusive education but from the factshe has loving parents who have taken the time to instill in her a love for learning and a desire for knowledge.

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Judy1234 · 01/07/2007 20:18

Don't decide against it. Anyway I really do challenge that it's your decision. She has two parents. Many a housewife with no income doesn't pay but still has a say and that presumably is morally right so too should that apply to fathers. You are out voted.

Blandmum · 01/07/2007 20:21

I send my kids to a school that suits them and meets their needs. It also has excellent pre and post school after care. It also has a lot of extra curricular stuff which they enjoy.

They love the school, and are happy there. Because they are happy I can concentrate on my job. Which I enjoy very much. And I do my very best for the kids that I teach.

If my kids were unhappy I wouldn't do as well. In all honesty, I feel no guilt over my choice at all. I do my bit for the state sector every day. My kids don't have to do it on my behalf.

whiskersonkittens · 01/07/2007 20:21

twinsetandpearls - are you really saying that the state 'is unfit for your child'? It sounds to me as if you feel the state system would suit her very well in many ways, but looking at all the circumstances she will be better off in a specific school

I saw a poem that Xenia posted on a different thread that I think said that we are effectively guardian of our children's future but they will actually live it and we must respect their wishes and needs as well as ours and those of the family.

I can see that you are agonising over this dilemma which does you credit, but if your dd and your dp want this can you at least go and look round the school and talk it over with everyone?

twinsetandpearls · 01/07/2007 20:22

Xenia I know that you would turn your nose up at the exam results the school we are contemplating produces but there is more to education than exam results. If all I wanted dd to achieve was a stringful of Agrades I woudl just send her to the local comp and then tutor her myself at the weekends and evenings.

I have mixed views on boarding, dd is clearly far too young but if she wanted to board during the week when she is older I would not have a problem with it as I know we have laid down all the foundations with dd for her to be secure in the knowldege that we love her and that if she was atall unhappy she could come home. I could not imagine her boarding at weekends though. I woudl also never force or expect a child to board if it was not their idea.

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twinsetandpearls · 01/07/2007 20:25

Xenia the outvoted bit is the only resson this is up for discussion in our house.

But I think I am being extremely tolerant in giving my ex a say as he was a violent bully who kicked his newborn daughter and wife out on to the streets without a penny and only the clothes they had on.

If we were a proper father I would let him have his won way, tbh the people I am listening to are my dp and my family as I know that they genuinely want the best for dd.

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twinsetandpearls · 01/07/2007 20:26

martianbishop thatis exactly what dp says, you and him are clearly more level headed than me

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twinsetandpearls · 01/07/2007 20:27

whiskersonkittens I have promised to look around the school, I know a bit about it already as I know of people who send their children there and to befair to the school they are all very happy with the school.

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Blandmum · 01/07/2007 20:32

I wish I had a school that I could send them to in the state sector that would meets their needs as well, but I don't. So we pay.

I can honestly say I have no guilt about it. I really do my bit. Sending my kids to somewhere that wouldn't suit them, and would make them unhappy wouldn't help anyone's education. Not my kids or the kids that I teach. So why do it?

twinsetandpearls · 01/07/2007 20:35

Mb I can't argue with that and I know from reading your posts that you are a good teacher who certainly does her share to help improve the state system.

THe thing that angers me was that there is an acceptable school that dd could have gone to and I am sure could have been happy at until she found out about this school.

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Dabbles · 01/07/2007 20:42

why do all 'socialist guardianists' wanna be spanked.....

twinsetandpearls · 01/07/2007 20:57

cos we enjoy it

How many of us have you spanked then?

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Dabbles · 01/07/2007 20:59

hmm. well, erm, no but as a female socialist(ish) guardian reader myself....lol

twinsetandpearls · 01/07/2007 21:01

We even enjoy same gender spanking we are so politically correct we don;t want to deny anyone the right to give us a quick tap to the rear.

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Dabbles · 01/07/2007 21:02

lol... maybe in pre baby days... lol

Judy1234 · 01/07/2007 21:11

Yes, some parents don't deserve a say. My ex wasn't interested in giving any opinion when my son changed schools and had to ask his daughter which university she was at. I think that kind of attitude removes your moral right to have a say.

Intelligent Catholics apparently have moved away from the Catholic boarding schools and schools like Eton have set up more facilities for Catholics, a Catholic chaplain etc too which has been attractive to some but that's all boys anyway. I think children at boarding school come too much under the influence of their peers. At least if you live at home you have more parental influence.

ahundredtimes · 01/07/2007 21:53

Have you decided? Choice is a luxury not everybody has, so use it wisely.

twinsetandpearls · 01/07/2007 21:56

Xenia are you saying that I am a thick catholic ?

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twinsetandpearls · 01/07/2007 21:58

I am still a long way away from allowing her to attend the school so am not fretting about the rights and wrongs of boarding.

I know I am lucky to have the choice, although it is not to do with luck it has come about after a lot of hard work and saving.

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twinsetandpearls · 01/07/2007 22:05

I have a really funny vision of lots of intelligent catholics clutching to their rosary beads and sudoko books wondering down the M6 thanking the lord to have escaped the capital of educational dumbing down otherwise known as Stonyhurst.

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Judy1234 · 02/07/2007 08:50

You're not thick at all. And not all parents choose schools based on their exam results but there was a movement of some Catholics away from the Catholic boarding schools to places like Eton who it was said were deliberately targetting the cleverer ones with Catholic chaplains etc and the much higher exam results. And then those boys schools have had to let in girls because of falling numbers. But if you live near Stonyhurst it would be a good school to go to particularly if you can avoid any pressure from her later to board. The problem is once you start them at a school where their friends will board in due course if you don't agree with boarding it's hard to undo that later and say no you can't even though all the others are.

twinsetandpearls · 02/07/2007 09:16

we do live near and as we will soon be moving to care for dd parents we will be minutes away from the school.

I honestly have not thought about boarding, I have not decided if she is going yet and us wanting to go does not mean we will automatically get a place. But as I said if dd wanted to board on a weekly basis when she was much older I would not have an issue with it especially as we would be living so colse to the school

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twinsetandpearls · 02/07/2007 09:17

Eton is just a bit far away and I would imagine out of my price range!

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