will someone scold and spank me and remined me I am a stubborn socialist guardianista?

[twinsetandpearls]

I have always made my feelings clear about private schools but the family has been working on me again and have ordered a proespectus for a private school that I have been idly flicking through and I have fallen in love with it and even - and this is a big deal for me - looked at the website.

For me this is a huge step and I am feeling sick with guilt, so guilty in fact that I have just re planned all my lessons tomorrow for my classes as some kind of penenance.

I need other socialist guardianistas to take me in hand.

That would make me awfully cross...

but UD, the power of speech is ok for some but others can enjoy a wide vocabulary?

must be one of the worst analogies I've heard

Education is bigger than just education though IYSWIM. It is about society, and shaping society. As any socialist would know.

yes I want state and always have and everybody else and I mean everybody else want private. My ex even tried to get custody of dd on the grounds that I was going to subject her to the terrors of the state system When we went bankrupt it went away but now that he knows wehave the economic means to send dd to a private school he has stated whinging again and filling dd head with what life would be like at this school, he will be reading her malory towers next.

My mum always wanted to privately educate me but we could not afford it so she is living her dreams through dd.

My grandad and dp just want the best for dd both grew up in real poverty and have spen their lives fighting to catch up as a result and they want to see dd have an easier time than any of us.

Her aunties are just hoping that dd may introduce them to some rich men

meandmyflyingmachine awfully cross is putting it mildly.

who is with a bloke a class above pointy?

The examples you give of how you know a teacher is failing a child have left me amazed. I would expect the management team of the school to deal with the teacher if they were this bad or are you saying that they are so out of touch with what their staff are doing that they don't know whats going on? I understand that it is very very rare that teachers get sacked, perhaps more stringent standards of managing teachers need to be bought in if what you are saying is common place (if you are saying that)

I also do think that there are many reasons why people send their children privately and many of these actually are to do with opting out of what the government says education should be. An example of this is the ridiculous sitation where something like 96% of pupils are passing 'A' levels with nearly a quarter getting an A grade. It seems that the universities need a clearer way of differntiating pupils and I suspect this will come in with a new exam. I also suspect that the private schools will adopt this quicker thus widening ever further the gap between state and private.

My PIL will almost certainly offer to help to pay for ds, possibly dd (don't get me started on that) to go to private school. We are not looking forward to that conversation...

Sorry, didn't express it that well. I was just trying to find one that was moving away from the "pie" one. What I mean is one person's vocabulary doesn't adversely affect another's - and can even enhance it.

I'd love to know how many people who insist they would "go state" whatever would stick to their principles if they unexpectedly ended up in a bad catchment.

aintnomountainhighenough that has gone on in all the state schools I have taught in and IMO too little is done.

flyingmachine - gawd, if you don't want his money, send him in my direction!

NOt only is it wrong but it makes life much harder for good teachers like myself

My children

Or

My principles

When the two conflict, whaddya do?

I was trying to say that in this day and age the two cannot conflict. The parameters of that argument were only ever relevant when a good postcode didn't ensure you a better education. In this day and age it is meaningless.

But okay. Let's rewind 25 years and pretend that a conflict really does exist. So what? 99% of child-owners will end up in the same place anyway ...

TSAP I think you have been a bit brainwashed into thinking that private school is bad. It is so not bad. Many state schools now are at a point where they can't offer a fully academic education because the intake is too mixed. The better schools stream and make it possible for those who need an academic education to get the most out of the education experience, THIS IS NOT, REPEAT NOT, dear Guardian readers at the expense of other children. Not everyone needs or wants or benefits from the full academic experience, however all children need to be able to read write, and know the basics about maths and science to equip them to work. But there seems to be a huge prejudice against academia, don't know why. If children excel at sport, the school is encouraged, if it's acadamic it's not. Why is that? Only the private schools seem to be able to offer the academic stuff and not treat it like it's poison

I would. And I know what the schools are like. I have taught in them. Because I disagree with your ideas about education. I don't see how educating some children privately benefits other children. And I certainyl don't think it will benefit society.

So:

your ex has been talking to your DD about her education choices without clearing it with you first. This is clearly out of order.

Your mother, frankly, should butt out. It is not her decision.

Your DP should support you in your choices.

Your DD is plainly too young to make these decisions.

If I were you, I'd tell the lot of them to fark off. Really.

mmm, local, maybe the opposite. Twin has been told over and over that private is better

But can I tell them to fark off? They all love dd and genuinely want whatis best for her and are frustrated at my stubborness. My ex may be a twat but he is her father and should have a say, although his position is negated by the fact he cannot pay for this school and he expects me to

Dp has been partof our family since dd was tiny, he takes the reponsibilty of a father and therefore should have a say.

I can't understand a moral position that will damage your children just because otherwise you'll be villified in your community and sink school for opting into the private system. I don't even think the case is made out that you having your one child subjected to that benefits others given how most parents choose the best school not the worst so you'll never effect change through one child.

Nor do I think people are leaving the state system in droves. It's a fairly constant 7 - 10% depending on areas and most can't afford it. You are depriving the state of £5k a year by keeping a child you could educate privately in the state system. That's a lot of money for dubious principle. What else would one do to make children suffer for the good of the cause? During the Chinese revolution a lot of children were removed from their parents to be cared for by the state so both parents could work 16 hour days for the cause. Do we think they were right to? At least paying fees is more honest than choosing to live in the nicer bit of town and advantaging the child that way.

"I don't see how educating some children privately benefits other children. And I certainyl don't think it will benefit society."

But how can a sound academic education NOT benefit society?

DD is too young to make the decision but I cannot ignore the fact that her face radiates with joy and excitement when the place is mentioned and the fact that the school offers so much that caters to her funny little ways and that the local state school does not.

tsap - Think ahead 15 years. What sort of life do you want for your children? If you want them to struggle and sort it out for themselves, and not be sure what the future offers then choose state. This is what most of us will experience and it won't kill them. They will still face struggles at fee paying but may end up with more choices. Thats all. They can't choose so you have to.

But Xenia how will my dd be damaged by going to the loacl state school. Will they beat her? Will they refuse to teach her? No she just won't do latin and ballet.

I said, if I were you I'd tell them to fark off... cos I'm a stubborn sort of Guardian-reading socialist, and when it comes down to it, if I feel strongly about something like this, nothing on earth will make me change my mind! Unfortunately (or not) for you, you seem to have a much more reasonable mindset...

"you'll never effect change through one child."

Or one vote. Yet it is how democracy works.

And I can hardly pass on to my children my ideas about social justice if I pay for them to be educated seperately. It is a moral issue for me, and I would no sooner renege on those principles than I would tell them it was OK to steal something if they really really wanted it.