Who saw BBC 2 Grammar schools - who will get in " last night?

[Foxy333]

Watched this last night with interest. We're not in Grammar school area and generally I think it was / is a bad system that works for the top abilities but not for the middle and lower ones. However I've seen my daughter suffer in years 7 to 9 or a comprehensive from not being stretched and teachers concentrating on the most demanding pupils who need lots of help and ignoring the quiet well- behaved pupils who going to pass GCSE's anyway. Often some pupils disrupt the class and the whole class gets punished.

They only set them for 2 subjects and I've heard that's changing in future to one. so I see why a Grammar would suit some. But why cant all schools be good. Is it stricter discipline that's needed?

Felt for the children in the program, so young to face this divisive test.

lets ,I do like your blithe assumption that all families can afford a daily bus out of catchment!

It costs £40 a week for my ds to go to the 6th form that is best for him and he wanted to go to. Many of the families at his Secondary Modern school could not have even considered that as an option.

There has to be a different story to Chichi , a school such as Erith would be desperate to keep a child like her in their school !
Perhaps Chichi is desperate not to be seen as her sisters double. No doubt her sister was winning academic awards and being seen as 'outstanding' by teachers .
Therefore Chichi presents a kind of Lauren 'am I bothered persona '.

It is possible that Chichi is a children that plays/ reacts to her surroundings so if she was at Townley her currency would be A* As. However, at Erith she paints herself as 'dead hard' and not bothered .

In Chichi case whatever grades she comes out with, it would have been hugely beneficial to be at a school with a different ethos.

We don't know what Chichi financial circumstances . However assuming they are perhaps OK a move to a different school would have been beneficial for her she would have been out of her 'sisters shadow' .

ChiChi appeared to me to be very bothered indeed about her results. And very intelligent and articulate about her situation. You must have been watching a different programme.

Child that plays/reacts to her surroundings ! I guess failing the 11+ plays on her mind, hence I don't need to conform attitude.

a move to a different school would have been beneficial for her

Which other school would you suggest?

Of course Chichi is bothered , thus if you know anything about the 'lauren Tate' character you will know how bright and bothered Lauren really is !
A bright girl really does not need to get into a fight on the netball court nor answering teachers back !
She has obviously been a pain in the neck for 5 years....

I think children vary in their ability to tolerate rules and restrictions. Speaking as an adult who has a short fuse with unnecessary rules! Some children do need to be cajoled more than others. Some clever children don’t see life as plainly as adults do. They are yet to gain the experience to evaluate what they have and how to make the best of it.

Given the salaries at Erith, (very high!) and the 25% uplift in the £ per pupil formula, they could spend on quality learning support if they wanted to. They have a fairly top heavy management and sending a well paid senior teacher on a speed dating mission around the school to round up children is not a wise use of resources.

You couldn’t get further apart on the behaviour standards if you tried really. You can see that demographics and the surrounding cohort makes a massive difference. I’d love to know the story behind Chichi’s exclusions. To me she was clearly bright and articulate but I imagine there was a back story. The behaviour patrol lady just seemed a bit shrill and counterproductive and I can see why angry kids would argue against that. If you had a manager like her in the workplace you’d start to go a bit nuts and a lot of these kids are not that far off working age. I’d have argued against the logic of missing revision classes to sit and do something pointless in detention for example. I’d have also argued against the accusation of being abusive towards her teacher. She was holding her own but the footage (which granted might have been edited) didn’t scream abusive.

Chichi frustrated me because she is so obviously full of potential but she couldn't take any responsibility at all for her behaviour. She felt that people knew she was sensitive, so if they upset her in any way it was their fault she responded aggressively. Near the end she was talking about how much she didn't want to be permanently excluded and it sounded as though she was gaining some insight, but then it became clear that she thought it would be entirely the school's fault if she was. It's not an unusual attitude from disruptive students, but it's one that will scupper her chances of good results and a high flying career if she can't move past it.

An example is at about the 42 minute mark.

I can’t undestand why Chichi was at Erith School to be honest. There’s a very good catholic girls school in the area that gets excellent exam results.
I also agree with Bertrand. I cannot see the point of comparing a grammar school to. RI secondary modern.
It would have been more useful to compare Townley to the girls catholic school, which is in the same area and has roughly the same demographic. However, I suppose that this wouldn’t have made interesting television

I am assuming Chi Chi and her family picked Erith. Her sister went there , after all, and got 8A*s.

I actually went to that school. Unfortunately it was very poor back then!

Perhaps Chichi isn't Catholic?

Or, perhaps they still have the rule that they did when I attended, that people who do the 11+ are not eligible to attend. It was considered that either you were prioritising your religion, in which case you would not consider attending any of the Grammars, or education in which case you were not a committed Catholic. I know it sounds insane written down, but I didn't do the 11+ because I wanted to go there and this was when schools were still doing it as standard, pre SATS. So I had an afternoon and the following morning off primary school, as did my sister 2 years later.

Luckily my brother did do it and went to Bexley grammar!

What on earth as Chichi done to be on the verge of 'permanent exclusion'. This especially when baring in mind that her currency of good/very good exam results in a school desperate for them !

Also bearing in mind her Sister's reputation/achievements (which must have given Chichi a kind of culture capital with the teachers). It is confusing why Chichi would have been picked on by teachers from day one.

Interestingly though on the Townley twitter feed , there is a invitation for Chichi to attend an introduction/talk to medicine course !

Finally also on that twitter feed , many students of Townley are stating that the depicting of grammar schools being middle class is wrong in their case !

Has Chichi done !

Oh that's good letstalk! Hope it gives her a boost.

Chi Chi says she was picked on (but I thought she was saying it was since exclusion, not since Day One). That could be a perception. At the beginning of the programme she claimed she had never been in trouble before the playground fight. I don't think Chi Chi is very self aware or emotionally mature (yet). she also said she didn't have an attitude problem and all her friends were shown telling her she did!She was shown being really rude across the playground to a teacher.

I don't think Chi Chi ever thinks anything is Chi Chi's fault! Hopefully, the inspiring science teacher will have turned her round by now!

Last nights programme seen to concentrate on the very top 'academically' able pupils of Erith and the 'least' able of Townley.

The programme highlighted the need for a 40% academic system , this by presenting the three able pupils at Erith underachieving. This being down to 'behavioural' issues and a lack of available qualified teachers/or any teachers !

The Primary school the girl and her 'highly' academic sister went to , needs to ask themselves questions. Those being how can a girl capable of 6A* and 5A GCSE grades not pass an 11+ and secondly how can no one from one year pass !

The Primary school concerned must be 'hopeless'

Finally with all these top pupils (you would think that with what was presented on TV). A Secondary Modern Education such as Erith should be doing better than 23% @ Level 5 English/Maths.

Letstalk200; I think the example you cite of the girl getting high GCSE grades but not passing the 11plus, just proves how testing a child in year 6 is not a good predictor of academic success.

I felt very sorry for the Erith pupil (sorry don't remember her name) who wants to move to grammar for A levels and had mock GCSE scores just under the required level. I do hope she manages to get where she wants..to do so well when the odds seemingly stacked against her.. The determination and resilience she must have is worth more than any grade... If I were a school I would want her as my pupil!!

That grammar headteacher is such a spiv.

I think Desmond 'D' thinks he is God's Gift to the World doesn't he !
I bet he will put himself up for 'Question Time' next hoping for a media career !

This unless he asks for a sabbatical to go in the Jungle .
I Noticed his XKR Jaguar !

£80K When New 17 MPH 0-60 4,4 seconds really paints a picture for a man in a move....

174 MPH..

I love the idea of a Jag that does 17 mph, what a brilliant typo!

Tanisha's mum really wound me up. The poor girl may not get the grades to stay at Townley for the sixth form, yet her mum seemed to be trying to bamboozle her (and her teacher) into her taking Further Maths.....