Feel like I have to justify why we are sending DD to private school.

[yummymummy06]

Hi. Well we made the decision to send our DD to private school in september. Just spoke to my friend about it and she made me feel really bad and was questioning me. She said 'it wont make her clever' which I know it wont but I explained she will have alot more oportunities to do extra activities and be pushed that bit more further in school. Plus she was saying about all the extras, lunch, milk uniform etc is alot on top. Yes I will be driving 25 minutes there, 4 trips a day but that is the decision we have made as we are not happy with the local school. Does anyone else feel like they have to justify themselves about sending their children to private school? I didn't really know what to say to her.

I agree with whoever said just say it's the one that's best for your child, and leave it at that. Once you get into giving reasons that include generalisations about private schools (rather than incontroveribly factual statements about that particular school) you're very likely to get people's backs up as you're likely to be implicitly criticising what they've chosen for their own child - the whole "well I wanted the best for her" implying not-so-subtly "you must not want the best for your child" or "your child is only going to have second-best", and so on.

Incidentally I was privately educated and the lack of local friends and feeling detached from my local community is a big reason I don't want that for my children. I wouldn't rule out private, we might still do it if we felt we had to, but I wouldn't minimise that disadvantage when weighing up the pros and cons - it's a real one.

Ladymuck - sorry, I didn't mean to say that you specifically were wrong to privately educate. It's absolutely your right and your decision. However, I think that private education is wrong per se and that in an ideal world it wouldn't exist.(Just wait til I'm world dictator -then we'll see some changes!) - damn, my son's just woken up. If this thread's still going later, I'll expand on my reasons!

Would indeed be curious to hear them.

Ok Xenia & others

Why is educating my children privately against my principles?

I believe in social justice, that all children should have equal opportunities and access to learning. That no-one is better than any body else, and that importantly I have a duty to the communtity in which I live. The parents who have succeeded or inherited and have money to buy private education also are the ones who have the skills and resources to support their local schools and help to give ALL children opportunities.

As an aside it is in all our interests to educate children amongst others of different classes, religions and ethnicity. Where else are the future politicians, lawyers, bankers, economists etc.. going to learn about social inclusion. They are not going to learn about it at private school, university, the work place..

Private education, excessive wealth privilege and the royalty are all part of a system which thrives on exclusion. As the rich grow the richer, the poor grow poorer.

And yes, the world is in an imperfect place but just because it is impossible why should we give up trying.

Thats why it is against my principles!

It's helpful to hear. I still don't see how you can strip education out though. Children are born some ugly some pretty some clever some not, some hardworking and others not, some with helpful educated parents and some not so they start massive unequal in all kinds of ways so it seems a bit pointless to try to even out inequality by having everyone in identical communist china time identical schools because the differences are there anyway and the state school system is full of inequalities anyway.

I can see how someone could be cross that others think their choice to go state means they must be jealous of those who pay. I am sure some of us are sick of paying twice who pay whilst others see it as freeing a state place for another child so even if we pay we often do it for different reasons.

yummym06, I was 26 when my oldest went to Haberdashers which is a private school so not that much older than you. Some parents did seem quite a bit older but by no means all as a lot of Indian parents for example whose children were there marry young anyway. In fact now I'm 45 and possibly the oldest mother with our twins. I don't think you need to worry about age.

Kaz- we are not poor by anybody's standards, as we have food and roof over our heads, but I must tell you that every last spare penny goes into paying school fees. Why?

Because I do not want the crap kicked out of my kids daily for such sins as playing in orchestras, enjoying science and reading. Oh, and not watching Eastenders and X-Factor.

Because I would like them to end up with the qualifications they deserve, not the qualifications the school thinks they deserve (NOT the same thing, believe me, from many years of teaching and anecdotally as a parent and friend of parents of state school pupils).

Because I want them to be able to be themselves without an entire year group picking on them, without teachers telling me they have a character defect (said to me my son's reception class teacher when he was 4, as he preferred to read indoors at break time rather than join in with the football playing boys outside).

Because at nearly 14, my son is not remotely interested in: football, pop music, girls, sex, television apart from the Simpsons and Dr Who, and would be torn apart in the highly commercialised superficially sophisticated environment of mainstream yoof culture. I have taught lads who rather have died than let their friends at school know that they sang in choirs or acted outside school.

Because they don't have telly in their rooms, computers, iPods, sharp trainers, holidays in Dubai, expensive cars, pocket money or an expensive lifestyle.

Because the school they go to now lets them be themselves, and encourages them to play music, act, etc... rather than condoning bullying because they are different (and anybody whose child is able to talk about their unusual hobby with friends at their state secondary school has indeed found a good one)

Because they did not grow up on chicken nuggets and chips, and eat vegetables and fruit.

Because the way we bring them up is antithetical in virtually every aspect to the way most children are brought up in this country.

We do not have a spare penny, we drive a 7yr old and and 12 yr old car (sorry but live in the sticks so 2 cars necessary), but it is worth it because they feel accepted at school. I am not a knee-jerk private school parent, but I will do anything in my power to make sure my children have the childhood they deserve without feeling they have to grow up too soon and join the commercial world which most kids seem forced into earlier and earlier.

I do not think that it is feasible to expect professional people to drop work one day a week to help out at their local school- indeed, so many are the checks in the way of doing that these days that many people are discouraged from offering any kind of help. What resources should we be offering to our local state school?

The education system already gets our taxes. I don't feel it a social duty to help out as we are barely, as public servants ourselves, making ends meet. Also, as I mentioned earlier, we would inevitably be seen as pushy by the state system, just because our children come from a highly academic family (with many actual academics) and we do not expect them to do badly. Should our children decide to follow their forebears into the family business, they will need to have received a very rigorous education. So yes, I do think that academe is important, but I do not think that academic standards and all the other things you mention are mutually incompatible.

*

Also, to cover all bases, I should mention that as a state school (French state school) pupil arriving at Cambridge, I found many of the other inmates utterly incomprehensible, most particularly the thick public school ones. I just couldn't work out what they were doing there.

I do however have a very strong feeling that Cambridge would much rather take bright self-motivated pleasant state school pupils, as long, and this is the crucial bit, as they have reached the required academic level. Many state school pupils are simply not making the grade academically. I do not think that one or two like us and our children, or even ten, in one entire school is going to change what the other parents expect of that school and their own children, or what the headteacher chooses to provide.

You do not have to justify paying for private education. I would like the state to justify why parents should have to fork out tho.

There is no choice within the state education system. Every school is supposed to teach exactly the same to every pupil according to the year they were born. Do people really think that the same means equal ?

The law states that every child (after their 5th birthday) should receive education according to their age, aptitude and ability. This is simply not possible in classes of 30 4,5,6,7 year olds with 1 teacher and maybe a teaching assistant !!

Duchesse our state primary is nothing like your description of state schools???

Are you describing your experience of state schools in Cambridge, and if so, which one as I am intrigued?

I'm speaking more of secondaries, and of the many and various schools my children and my friends' children attended and I taught in in Hampshire, Berkshire and Surrey. I have to say that the primaries are usually a LOT better than the secondaries, and that my children received a first-class education (much better than any local private) at their state infant school. The playground was a scary place though, and that was just for me at pickup time!

However: my son was in classes of 35 for the first 3 years of his school life, and was predicted to fail to achieve even level 1 at KS1 by his yr2 teacher. He's now 13 and doing very well at an academically demanding private secondary, so he cannot have been that thick...

I think what comes out of duchesse's comments is how hugely varied state comps can be. Their quality of provision can depend on so many factors. And often they are self-fulfilling prophecies - if you get a good one in a decent area, there are high expectations of the kids, and vice-versa.

The one where DW first taught was in a terrible area and always came bottom of the league table. Of course, they bigged up the fact that it had vibrant music, sports and drama activities. Fine, if that's what you want. It would have been totally inappropriate for any academically-minded child.

Duchesse, I could have written much of your post.

My children don't have the TVs in rooms, ipods, they don't watch soaps or indeed much TV.

They are both academic, have a love of learning and love books and reading.

My son is not in the least sporty, hates football and doesn't care one jot about football teams. He is very musical, taking part in both choir and orchestra.

The difference is, my children have thrived, and are still thriving, in the state sector.

They go to a secondary school with a truly mixed intake, not selective at all, and yet which encourages children in all areas and which has high expectations of all children.

There is no culture of being picked on for being clever or musical or not sporty or not 'trendy' or whatever. Children are encouraged to excel in any areas, and praise is given equally for all sorts of achievement.

I wish that my DD could be picked on for being in the orchestra [ironic icon] ... our local comp doesn't have one!!
Never mind, one more week and then she's out of there ... to go to a proper school for Sixth Form. Hooray!!

What is a proper school?

She may not be jealous, you know.
I'm on the other side of the fence. Having to justify our decision to state educate out children when PILs anti, and would pay for private (though we could afford it anyway). It's hard to feel like you have to justify a decision you have made about your own child's future, regardless of which camp you're in. I can see their point, but they can't see ours it seems.

gosh i feel like you too yummymummy. i moved ds1 from state school to private in jan this year. its something we had thought abot for a while. and in fact in between the time i knew he was leaving his old school and starting the new one i didnt really tell any of the mums at the school gate. i knew they would mke some assumption that i was a snob or thought i was better than them or something and just couldnt be bothered with all that and having to feel like i should justify my decision, and perhaps feeling bad that we could afford it (just!) and they probably couldnt.
they all seem to know now that he goes to a private school and they all snub me at the school now, (still tke ds2 there for preschool and he will also be going there for a yr or 2 starting in sept before he joins ds1 at his private school).
YANBU. they are. its none of their business. imho i think they are jealous. t them saying it wont make her clever. how bloody ignorant and rude.

ooos for some reason i thought this was an AIBU thread!

Duchesse - I enjoyed your post! And yours portonovo - just shows how different schools can be!!

I live in a leafy, suburban area but my two local state secondary schools are dire (although not the worst in the borough, although that is damning with faint praise). The fantastic school just over a mile away is exactly the sort of school portonovo mentioned but I would need to spend over £100,000 extra to buy a house in the catchment area of that school. Why would I spend that kind of money to get my children into a school where 70% of the children get 5 A-Cs at GCSE when, for a similar amount of money, I can send them to a private school where 99% of the children get 5 A-Cs? As far as I can see I have to pay for my children's schooling - either through a mortgage or through fees - in which case I prefer to buy the better results.

Frankly I think it is disgraceful that other people have no option but to put up with some of these awful schools.

Yummy, I suspect the reason you feel you have to justify your decision in because so many of the parents who have made that choice before you have muddied the waters for you! For all the parents who genuinely select a particular school, state or private because, after careful research they feel it is the 'best' school for THEIR particular child's strengths AND WEAKNESSES, there will be 10 more who will, as has been mentioned umpteen times on this thread, claim Private Is Best, full stop.

I DO wish people could say 'we've decided on School X for DC', NOT 'We've decided to go private' as an opening statement, implying private is automatically the better choice. This, imo, is further backed up by those who think non-private selecting parents are jealous. Of what? Having to pay through the nose for a service the majority of the populace access for 'free'?

I guess state parents, particularly the majority who can't afford private do tire of the 'best' argument- again, as has been said before- the implication that state parents are failing their kids. A more honest assessment might, for instance, include statements like 'we're going to send DS to St X's because he's such a delicate little flower he couldn't possibly survive in the rough and tumble of a mainstream state school' or "We're sending DD to St Y's because she's really not very clever and needs the one on one that school can supply" instead of which state parents hear "We're going private because it's better".

I do have to say here (gulp) it does seem to be the private selecting parents on MN who have the most 'informed opinions' on state schooling, often being people who have never sent a child to a state school in their lives!

So, in summary Yummy, I believe these are the reasons you'll meet distate from some people for your choice.

As for the 47% of parents 'would choose to send children private', I think that statistic depends entirely on what the actual question that was asked was. I think 47% of parents would say yes to "Would you like to be able to send your child to a school that perfectly matched his talents without you having to pay a king's ransom for acres of football pitches your son isn't interested in playing on, auditoria your daughter isn't interested in performing in, language labs your child isn't capable of learning Serbo-Croat in?- oh, and all with small class sizes?"

miljee- I suspect you may not have an idea quite how much of a rough and tumble many mainstream secondaries really are. Either that or we are just a family of weeds who believe in being polite and arguing patiently instead of slapping.

I like your post miljee

Eley's post say a lot on this topic

"Why would I spend that kind of money to get my children into a school where 70% of the children get 5 A-Cs at GCSE when, for a similar amount of money, I can send them to a private school where 99% of the children get 5 A-Cs? As far as I can see I have to pay for my children's schooling - either through a mortgage or through fees - in which case I prefer to buy the better results."

It's risky buying the expensive house in the hope of having a good state school place. It's less risky paying fees and you get more choice and mostly the A level results are better - compare the best performing state schools and Manchester Grammar at A level etc Virtually always the so called "good" state schools are not getting such good A levels.

miljee, I like your post too!! Re your statement "This, imo, is further backed up by those who think non-private selecting parents are jealous. Of what? Having to pay through the nose for a service the majority of the populace access for 'free'?"

If you can get for free the service I intend to pay for, then I'm jealous of you, not the other way round!!! The fact is that I plan to pay for a service that is not available here for free. I wish I lived where you live. Actually I wish I lived in the area where I grew up which has fantastic state schools.

And just for the record my children are at state primary at the moment, it's just secondary I intend to pay for. So some of us do have experience of the state system.

I don't know how you can be bothered even beginning to justify it.

Just say, you've got the cash and it's what you want to do.

If you lose a friend over it, so be it.

You could look askance and say how could she put holidays, houses, cars above buying an education for her children and you think she's being appalling personally materialistic to choose the selfish state school option.